Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

Agree entirely, Rigs ! 

The " your-God - my-God " argument ... and "God power" ... ** sigh ***

I believe, Jethro Tull says much of what I feel in : "My God"

People -- what have you done --
locked Him in His golden cage.
Made Him bend to your religion --
Him resurrected from the grave.

He is the god of nothing --
if that's all that you can see.

You are the god of everything --
He's inside you and me.

So lean upon Him gently
and don't call on Him to save you
from your social graces
and the sins you used to waive.
The bloody Church of England --
in chains of history --
requests your earthly presence at
the vicarage for tea.

And the graven image you-know-who --
with His plastic crucifix --
he's got him fixed --
confuses me as to who and where and why --
as to how he gets his kicks.

Confessing to the endless sin --
the endless whining sounds.
You'll be praying till next Thursday to
all the gods that you can count.

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:01:47 AM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:

"God powers" might also be a way of saying possession of grace in a
religious sense. Not sure what race has to do with this as we humans
arrive with the same form- what separates us is equity in several
ways. Political structure is a matter of timing and luck plus picking
the right side/group for the most part if you insist humans are
political by nature. I think there are agreed principals of ethical
behavior- universals- murked up with particulars. There is also a
recognition of evil as a force to contend with- internal and external.

On Oct 15, 6:40 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll pick up the stone
> (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/reasons-matter-when-i...)
> and argue that I cannot know if your Gods are false or not. Not
> because I am not a religious man, or a black man, or a political man,
> but because I am an individual and thereby only possess restrained
> demonstrable God powers myself.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > All Gods that religious men speak about, brandish shall we say, are false.
>
> > The one distributing those "commandments" included.
>
> > Which is not what I would say about individuals who take initiatives to
> > restrict people from moral turpitude and unethical conduct.
>
> > On Monday, October 15, 2012 11:01:46 AM UTC+5:30, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> >> doesn't one of the commandments say something about false gods?
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 6:15 AM, rigsy03 <rig...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > Thank you, Vam- I hope it is another precious visit.
>
> >> > Politics has become a "religion", as well. Just substitue a few words
> >> > in your paragraph. :-)
>
> >> > On Oct 13, 5:38 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Rigs, I can't help but think of the presence of a daughter and her
> >> >> family
> >> >> as " Happy Times " with grand-daughters ... noise, play, shout,
> >> >> request,
> >> >> demand and irritate, reminisce and gossip ,,, ! Hope it acrually turns
> >> >> to
> >> >> be a happy interlude .
>
> >> >> I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic effects of
> >> >> religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their adherents too
> >> >> to
> >> >> remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame of clerics
> >> >> and
> >> >> clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered with very
> >> >> beguiling but false promise of freedom.
>
> >> >> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> >> > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same
> >> >> > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think
> >> >> > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one
> >> >> > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway,
> >> >> > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning
> >> >> > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the
> >> >> > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a
> >> >> > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly
> >> >> > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee
> >> >> > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the
> >> >> > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea
> >> >> > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On
> >> >> > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new
> >> >> > lawn/
> >> >> > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
>
> >> >> > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
>
> >> >> > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that
> >> >> > > is
> >> >> > > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ...
> >> >> > beauty,
> >> >> > > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
>
> >> >> > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others.
>
> >> >> > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it
> >> >> > > has
> >> >> > > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has
> >> >> > > struck a
> >> >> > > blow at its own foot !
>
> >> >> > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions
> >> >> > > > which
> >> >> > > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones
> >> >> > > > to a
> >> >> > > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances
> >> >> > > > for the
> >> >> > > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he
> >> >> > > > stepped
> >> >> > > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open
> >> >> > > > to
> >> >> > > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus
> >> >> > > > demonstrable facts.
>
> >> >> > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>
> >> >> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>
> >> >> > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed
> >> >> > > > > > > to
> >> >> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans
> >> >> > > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > specific
> >> >> > > > > > > acts or purposes ... "
>
> >> >> > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>
> >> >> > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been
> >> >> > > > > > > programmed
>
> >> >> > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the
> >> >> > > > > > > planet !
>
> >> >> > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03
> >> >> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the
> >> >> > > > > > > > honey
> >> >> > bee
> >> >> > > > as a
> >> >> > > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination.
> >> >> > > > > > > > Species
> >> >> > pick
> >> >> > > > up
> >> >> > > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more
> >> >> > > > > > > > dedicated-
> >> >> > > > patterns
> >> >> > > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth
> >> >> > > > > > > > with
> >> >> > money/
> >> >> > > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been
> >> >> > programmed
> >> >> > > > to
> >> >> > > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans
> >> >> > > > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > specific
> >> >> > > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence,
> >> >> > insight
> >> >> > > > and
> >> >> > > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except
> >> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> >> > final
> >> >> > > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or
> >> >> > possible.
> >> >> > > > Hard
> >> >> > > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The
> >> >> > > > > > > > 12
> >> >> > year
> >> >> > > > old
> >> >> > > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise
> >> >> > > > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > > > > > violinists.
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the
> >> >> > > > > > > > > move
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > > > > > farming
> >> >> > > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for
> >> >> > those
> >> >> > > > who
> >> >> > > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work).
> >> >> > > > > > > > > The
> >> >> > obvious
> >> >> > > > > > issue
> >> >> > > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our
> >> >> > > > > > > > > work
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > > > > > life-
> >> >> > > > > > > > > style ideologies.    Slave-making ants kill the adults
> >> >> > > > > > > > > in
> >> >> > their
> >> >> > > > host
> >> >> > > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as
> >> >> > > > > > > > > they
> >> >> > > > become
> >> >> > > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood.  Even in
> >> >> > enslaved
> >> >> > > > ant
> >> >> > > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty'
> >> >> > > > > > > > > to
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > > > wider
> >> >> > > > > > > > > collective.  Humans have a sad history of enslavement
> >> >> > > > > > > > > and
> >> >> > debt
> >> >> > > > > > > > > peonage.
> >> >> > > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning
> >> >> > > > > > > > > salaries on
> >> >> > > > offer
> >> >> > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any!  The
> >> >> > Chinese
> >> >> > > > > > refer
> >> >> > > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant
> >> >> > People'.
> >> >> > > > > >  Some
> >> >> > > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing
> >> >> > > > > > > > > used
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > > > note
> >> >> > > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most
> >> >> > > > > > > > > knew
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > > > work
> >> >> > > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist
> >> >> > > > > > > > > theme).
> >> >> >  My
> >> >> > > > own
> >> >> > > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff
> >> >> > > > > > > > > that
> >> >> > > > James
> >> >> > > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely
> >> >> > > > > > > > > imagining
> >> >> > > > subjects
> >> >> > > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than
> >> >> > control
> >> >> > > > > > fraud.
> >> >> > > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary
> >> >> > > > > > > > > rot.
> >> >> > > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than
> >> >> > > > > > > > > most
> >> >> > > > people
> >> >> > > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly
> >> >> > > > > > > > > role
> >> >> > once I
> >> >> > > > > > clear
> >> >> > > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly
> >> >> > > > > > > > > because
> >> >> > no
> >> >> > > > human
> >> >> > > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads.  Allan and I share
> >> >> > > > > > > > > problems
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > > > our
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--