Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

"God powers" might also be a way of saying possession of grace in a
religious sense. Not sure what race has to do with this as we humans
arrive with the same form- what separates us is equity in several
ways. Political structure is a matter of timing and luck plus picking
the right side/group for the most part if you insist humans are
political by nature. I think there are agreed principals of ethical
behavior- universals- murked up with particulars. There is also a
recognition of evil as a force to contend with- internal and external.

On Oct 15, 6:40 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll pick up the stone
> (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/reasons-matter-when-i...)
> and argue that I cannot know if your Gods are false or not. Not
> because I am not a religious man, or a black man, or a political man,
> but because I am an individual and thereby only possess restrained
> demonstrable God powers myself.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > All Gods that religious men speak about, brandish shall we say, are false.
>
> > The one distributing those "commandments" included.
>
> > Which is not what I would say about individuals who take initiatives to
> > restrict people from moral turpitude and unethical conduct.
>
> > On Monday, October 15, 2012 11:01:46 AM UTC+5:30, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> >> doesn't one of the commandments say something about false gods?
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 6:15 AM, rigsy03 <rig...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > Thank you, Vam- I hope it is another precious visit.
>
> >> > Politics has become a "religion", as well. Just substitue a few words
> >> > in your paragraph. :-)
>
> >> > On Oct 13, 5:38 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Rigs, I can't help but think of the presence of a daughter and her
> >> >> family
> >> >> as " Happy Times " with grand-daughters ... noise, play, shout,
> >> >> request,
> >> >> demand and irritate, reminisce and gossip ,,, ! Hope it acrually turns
> >> >> to
> >> >> be a happy interlude .
>
> >> >> I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic effects of
> >> >> religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their adherents too
> >> >> to
> >> >> remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame of clerics
> >> >> and
> >> >> clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered with very
> >> >> beguiling but false promise of freedom.
>
> >> >> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> >> > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same
> >> >> > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think
> >> >> > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one
> >> >> > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway,
> >> >> > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning
> >> >> > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the
> >> >> > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a
> >> >> > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly
> >> >> > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee
> >> >> > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the
> >> >> > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea
> >> >> > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On
> >> >> > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new
> >> >> > lawn/
> >> >> > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
>
> >> >> > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
>
> >> >> > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that
> >> >> > > is
> >> >> > > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ...
> >> >> > beauty,
> >> >> > > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
>
> >> >> > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others.
>
> >> >> > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it
> >> >> > > has
> >> >> > > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has
> >> >> > > struck a
> >> >> > > blow at its own foot !
>
> >> >> > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions
> >> >> > > > which
> >> >> > > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones
> >> >> > > > to a
> >> >> > > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances
> >> >> > > > for the
> >> >> > > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he
> >> >> > > > stepped
> >> >> > > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open
> >> >> > > > to
> >> >> > > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus
> >> >> > > > demonstrable facts.
>
> >> >> > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>
> >> >> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>
> >> >> > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed
> >> >> > > > > > > to
> >> >> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans
> >> >> > > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > specific
> >> >> > > > > > > acts or purposes ... "
>
> >> >> > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>
> >> >> > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been
> >> >> > > > > > > programmed
>
> >> >> > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the
> >> >> > > > > > > planet !
>
> >> >> > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03
> >> >> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the
> >> >> > > > > > > > honey
> >> >> > bee
> >> >> > > > as a
> >> >> > > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination.
> >> >> > > > > > > > Species
> >> >> > pick
> >> >> > > > up
> >> >> > > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more
> >> >> > > > > > > > dedicated-
> >> >> > > > patterns
> >> >> > > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth
> >> >> > > > > > > > with
> >> >> > money/
> >> >> > > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been
> >> >> > programmed
> >> >> > > > to
> >> >> > > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans
> >> >> > > > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > specific
> >> >> > > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence,
> >> >> > insight
> >> >> > > > and
> >> >> > > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except
> >> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> >> > final
> >> >> > > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or
> >> >> > possible.
> >> >> > > > Hard
> >> >> > > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The
> >> >> > > > > > > > 12
> >> >> > year
> >> >> > > > old
> >> >> > > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise
> >> >> > > > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > > > > > violinists.
>
> >> >> > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the
> >> >> > > > > > > > > move
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > > > > > farming
> >> >> > > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for
> >> >> > those
> >> >> > > > who
> >> >> > > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work).
> >> >> > > > > > > > > The
> >> >> > obvious
> >> >> > > > > > issue
> >> >> > > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our
> >> >> > > > > > > > > work
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > > > > > life-
> >> >> > > > > > > > > style ideologies.    Slave-making ants kill the adults
> >> >> > > > > > > > > in
> >> >> > their
> >> >> > > > host
> >> >> > > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as
> >> >> > > > > > > > > they
> >> >> > > > become
> >> >> > > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood.  Even in
> >> >> > enslaved
> >> >> > > > ant
> >> >> > > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty'
> >> >> > > > > > > > > to
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > > > wider
> >> >> > > > > > > > > collective.  Humans have a sad history of enslavement
> >> >> > > > > > > > > and
> >> >> > debt
> >> >> > > > > > > > > peonage.
> >> >> > > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning
> >> >> > > > > > > > > salaries on
> >> >> > > > offer
> >> >> > > > > > for
> >> >> > > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any!  The
> >> >> > Chinese
> >> >> > > > > > refer
> >> >> > > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant
> >> >> > People'.
> >> >> > > > > >  Some
> >> >> > > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing
> >> >> > > > > > > > > used
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > > > note
> >> >> > > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most
> >> >> > > > > > > > > knew
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > > > work
> >> >> > > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist
> >> >> > > > > > > > > theme).
> >> >> >  My
> >> >> > > > own
> >> >> > > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff
> >> >> > > > > > > > > that
> >> >> > > > James
> >> >> > > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely
> >> >> > > > > > > > > imagining
> >> >> > > > subjects
> >> >> > > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than
> >> >> > control
> >> >> > > > > > fraud.
> >> >> > > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary
> >> >> > > > > > > > > rot.
> >> >> > > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than
> >> >> > > > > > > > > most
> >> >> > > > people
> >> >> > > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly
> >> >> > > > > > > > > role
> >> >> > once I
> >> >> > > > > > clear
> >> >> > > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly
> >> >> > > > > > > > > because
> >> >> > no
> >> >> > > > human
> >> >> > > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads.  Allan and I share
> >> >> > > > > > > > > problems
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > > > our
>
> ...
>
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