Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

Thank you, Vam- I hope it is another precious visit.

Politics has become a "religion", as well. Just substitue a few words
in your paragraph. :-)

On Oct 13, 5:38 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rigs, I can't help but think of the presence of a daughter and her family
> as " Happy Times " with grand-daughters ... noise, play, shout, request,
> demand and irritate, reminisce and gossip ,,, ! Hope it acrually turns to
> be a happy interlude .
>
> I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic effects of
> religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their adherents too to
> remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame of clerics and
> clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered with very
> beguiling but false promise of freedom.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same
> > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think
> > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one
> > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway,
> > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning
> > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the
> > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a
> > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly
> > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for a
> > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee
> > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the
> > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea
> > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On
> > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new lawn/
> > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
>
> > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
>
> > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is
> > > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ...
> > beauty,
> > > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
>
> > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others.
>
> > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has
> > > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a
> > > blow at its own foot !
>
> > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which
> > > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a
> > > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the
> > > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped
> > > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to
> > > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus
> > > > demonstrable facts.
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>
> > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
> > > > specific
> > > > > > > acts or purposes ... "
>
> > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>
> > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed
>
> > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet !
>
> > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey
> > bee
> > > > as a
> > > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species
> > pick
> > > > up
> > > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated-
> > > > patterns
> > > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with
> > money/
> > > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been
> > programmed
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
> > > > specific
> > > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence,
> > insight
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the
> > final
> > > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or
> > possible.
> > > > Hard
> > > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12
> > year
> > > > old
> > > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for
> > > > > > > > violinists.
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move
> > to
> > > > > > farming
> > > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for
> > those
> > > > who
> > > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work).  The
> > obvious
> > > > > > issue
> > > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work
> > and
> > > > > > life-
> > > > > > > > > style ideologies.    Slave-making ants kill the adults in
> > their
> > > > host
> > > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they
> > > > become
> > > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood.  Even in
> > enslaved
> > > > ant
> > > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to
> > the
> > > > wider
> > > > > > > > > collective.  Humans have a sad history of enslavement and
> > debt
> > > > > > > > > peonage.
> > > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on
> > > > offer
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any!  The
> > Chinese
> > > > > > refer
> > > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant
> > People'.
> > > > > >  Some
> > > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used
> > to
> > > > note
> > > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew
> > as
> > > > work
> > > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme).
> >  My
> > > > own
> > > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that
> > > > James
> > > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining
> > > > subjects
> > > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than
> > control
> > > > > > fraud.
> > > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot.
> > > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most
> > > > people
> > > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role
> > once I
> > > > > > clear
> > > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because
> > no
> > > > human
> > > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads.  Allan and I share problems
> > with
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of
> > year
> > > > to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy -
> > soon
> > > > my
> > > > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to
> > > > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat.  We have now
> > done
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering.
> > > > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to
> > predict
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this.  We find it in
> > > > non-human
> > > > > > > > > life-forms too.  This is related to a general science-view
> > of
> > > > why a
> > > > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all.
> > > >  I'll
> > > > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus
> > ants
> > > > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire
> > rebellion'?
>
> > > > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >  From another perspective one might like to appreciate the
> > > > role
> > > > > > (or a
> > > > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is
> > a
> > > > world
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a
> > challenge to
> > > > > > > > undertake
> > > > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or
> > outside
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature.
> > These
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being
> > led
> > > > > > becomes
> > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that
> > as
> > > > does
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language,
> > > > corrupting
> > > > > > as in
> > > > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared
> > > > > > language
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can
> > > > present a
> > > > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what
> > > > impetus
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and
> > > > where,
> > > > > > I've
> > > > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am
> > exploring
> > > > > > > > currently,
> > > > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for
> > > > sharing
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > you gather. :)
>
> > > > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical
> > > > concept of
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--