Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

doesn't one of the commandments say something about false gods?
Allan

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 6:15 AM, rigsy03 <rigsy03@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thank you, Vam- I hope it is another precious visit.
>
> Politics has become a "religion", as well. Just substitue a few words
> in your paragraph. :-)
>
> On Oct 13, 5:38 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rigs, I can't help but think of the presence of a daughter and her family
>> as " Happy Times " with grand-daughters ... noise, play, shout, request,
>> demand and irritate, reminisce and gossip ,,, ! Hope it acrually turns to
>> be a happy interlude .
>>
>> I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic effects of
>> religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their adherents too to
>> remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame of clerics and
>> clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered with very
>> beguiling but false promise of freedom.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same
>> > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think
>> > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one
>> > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway,
>> > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning
>> > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the
>> > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a
>> > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly
>> > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for a
>> > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee
>> > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the
>> > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea
>> > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On
>> > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new lawn/
>> > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
>>
>> > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
>>
>> > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is
>> > > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ...
>> > beauty,
>> > > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
>>
>> > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others.
>>
>> > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has
>> > > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a
>> > > blow at its own foot !
>>
>> > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which
>> > > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a
>> > > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the
>> > > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped
>> > > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to
>> > > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus
>> > > > demonstrable facts.
>>
>> > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>>
>> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>>
>> > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
>> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
>> > > > specific
>> > > > > > > acts or purposes ... "
>>
>> > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>>
>> > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed
>>
>> > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet !
>>
>> > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey
>> > bee
>> > > > as a
>> > > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species
>> > pick
>> > > > up
>> > > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated-
>> > > > patterns
>> > > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with
>> > money/
>> > > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been
>> > programmed
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
>> > > > specific
>> > > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence,
>> > insight
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the
>> > final
>> > > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or
>> > possible.
>> > > > Hard
>> > > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12
>> > year
>> > > > old
>> > > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for
>> > > > > > > > violinists.
>>
>> > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move
>> > to
>> > > > > > farming
>> > > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for
>> > those
>> > > > who
>> > > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The
>> > obvious
>> > > > > > issue
>> > > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work
>> > and
>> > > > > > life-
>> > > > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in
>> > their
>> > > > host
>> > > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they
>> > > > become
>> > > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in
>> > enslaved
>> > > > ant
>> > > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to
>> > the
>> > > > wider
>> > > > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and
>> > debt
>> > > > > > > > > peonage.
>> > > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on
>> > > > offer
>> > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The
>> > Chinese
>> > > > > > refer
>> > > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant
>> > People'.
>> > > > > > Some
>> > > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used
>> > to
>> > > > note
>> > > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew
>> > as
>> > > > work
>> > > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme).
>> > My
>> > > > own
>> > > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that
>> > > > James
>> > > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining
>> > > > subjects
>> > > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than
>> > control
>> > > > > > fraud.
>> > > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot.
>> > > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most
>> > > > people
>> > > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role
>> > once I
>> > > > > > clear
>> > > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because
>> > no
>> > > > human
>> > > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems
>> > with
>> > > > our
>> > > > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of
>> > year
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy -
>> > soon
>> > > > my
>> > > > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to
>> > > > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now
>> > done
>> > > > this
>> > > > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering.
>> > > > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to
>> > predict
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in
>> > > > non-human
>> > > > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view
>> > of
>> > > > why a
>> > > > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all.
>> > > > I'll
>> > > > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus
>> > ants
>> > > > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire
>> > rebellion'?
>>
>> > > > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the
>> > > > role
>> > > > > > (or a
>> > > > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is
>> > a
>> > > > world
>> > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a
>> > challenge to
>> > > > > > > > undertake
>> > > > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or
>> > outside
>> > > > our
>> > > > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature.
>> > These
>> > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being
>> > led
>> > > > > > becomes
>> > > > > > > > too
>> > > > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that
>> > as
>> > > > does
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language,
>> > > > corrupting
>> > > > > > as in
>> > > > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared
>> > > > > > language
>> > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can
>> > > > present a
>> > > > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what
>> > > > impetus
>> > > > > > would
>> > > > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and
>> > > > where,
>> > > > > > I've
>> > > > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am
>> > exploring
>> > > > > > > > currently,
>> > > > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for
>> > > > sharing
>> > > > > > what
>> > > > > > > > > > you gather. :)
>>
>> > > > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical
>> > > > concept of
>>
>> ...
>>
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>
>
>



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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.


I am a Natural Airgunner -

Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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