Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

Your friend sounds interesting Gabby, I try to exercise this within the
stream of consciousness but it takes a lot of energy to combat the
ghosts. Very little shines through, a persistent dissonance, but a known
one at least (with little consolation). Welcome Lee. :)

On 10/8/2012 7:56 PM, gabbydott wrote:
> OK, I deleted all the words not to be trusted. Here is the rest:
> My dyslexic friend Lee wishes we were all able to read on the same
> page, flattening and thereby banning the dancing shadows and ghosts to
> clearly contrasted black letters on a white ground. On the other side,
> as Rigs points out, speech whitens itself on this ground. Neil's
> suggestion for a transparent hypertext in a contextualised world won't
> make any of the sides fade into meaninglessness then.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James<ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future possibilities are still
>> clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a consequence of mental bondage
>> to current circumstances, and left unchecked can be demoralizing to creative
>> intelligence. As far as I can tell we are meant to invent solutions to
>> challenges, and hold on as long as possible until the opportunity arises. My
>> opinion is that we can do little to force change but as facilitators we can
>> pursue strategic challenges that will open those opportunities.
>>
>> If I said that in 10 years the technology should be accessible to refine
>> garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at 80+ conversion
>> efficiency from common household materials in your average (modern) garage
>> there is no shortage of engineers that would call me a quack. If I said that
>> you could do it today with moderate access to materials refining equipment,
>> with a net generated income over the winter months, and it could be boosted
>> by running a greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC,
>> steam reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few terms for
>> that type of nut.
>>
>> I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our social and political
>> dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able to redefine just about
>> any kind of waste into an asset, but we insist that primitive human traits
>> are superior and sacrosanct.
>>
>> Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are doing (not
>> necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still passin' the buck here,
>> your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad telepathy isn't an option
>> because the picture is clear but I just don't trust the words yet.
>>
>>
>> On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>>>
>>> That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas need time to
>>> consume your complex theories in simple practice for you to see where
>>> we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and motivate us. :p
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step with technology, that
>>>> implies an intelligent management infrastructure that educates and
>>>> motivates
>>>> free agents to make contributions to the works of humanity. Suitably
>>>> educated in the workings of organisms (especially how they relate and
>>>> compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of destitution, poverty,
>>>> mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that we manage things
>>>> intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. If this progress
>>>> happened in a 100 years I think we would likely reduce our population to
>>>> half within the next hundred, there is nothing logical about reproducing
>>>> ad
>>>> infinitum and by then the social costs should be obvious enough, added to
>>>> the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I think we have a large
>>>> potential in voluntary acts.
>>>>
>>>> Who is pie in the sky now? :p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If workers aren't needed for work, what will happen to them? The
>>>>> animal and plant world answer is generally a 'return to nutrients'.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila Tieschmaker<shekilatieschma...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how do you get out this group thing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: James<ashkas...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:26 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well it is far worse (or better depending on who is looking at it),
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> of the older trades and crafts-people I've met had an appreciation for
>>>>>>> seeing their work as an artform. That would be my robot heaven,
>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>> toward a world where we can all pursue meaning and purposeful work
>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>> the burden of resource scarcity. What would it matter that someone
>>>>>>> wants to
>>>>>>> be a plumber or architect in a day when those positions are obsolete,
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> that is pursuing meaning, it would matter little more than what
>>>>>>> restaurant
>>>>>>> someone likes to the next guy. In a world that valued human
>>>>>>> contribution it
>>>>>>> might be a plus, there is a name associated with the foundation of my
>>>>>>> home,
>>>>>>> or certain furniture or I tweaked my engine to respond exactly the way
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> like in a curve, finding a way to shield a planet from gamma
>>>>>>> radiation,
>>>>>>> optimizing resource allocations in complex evolving environments from
>>>>>>> nanotech on up to transport vessels for interplanetary mining and
>>>>>>> settlement, etc..
>>>>>>> Back to the present time and scale there is the matter of plotting a
>>>>>>> course of innovation by meeting challenges.
>>>>>>> Laziness might be a challenge, and frailty, I haven't met many people
>>>>>>> who have had to wash clothes in a bathtub complain about the
>>>>>>> advancement of
>>>>>>> the washing machine, or get whimsical about enduring ailments we've
>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>> remedies or therapies for. We seem to be in a transitional stage, not
>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>> coming to grips with the world we could create. Psychology is
>>>>>>> important to
>>>>>>> survival, nonproductive time as some call it, I eye some of them as
>>>>>>> suspect
>>>>>>> sociopaths. Being motivated can be very rewarding, it is too bad that
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> word for meaningfully motivated is "naive". I'm taking the long way
>>>>>>> 'round
>>>>>>> with this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/19/2012 5:56 PM, archytas wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thought experiments are devices of the imagination used to
>>>>>>>> investigate
>>>>>>>> the nature of things. Thought experimenting often takes place when
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> method of variation is employed in entertaining imaginative
>>>>>>>> suppositions. They are used for diverse reasons in a variety of
>>>>>>>> areas,
>>>>>>>> including economics, history, mathematics, philosophy, and physics.
>>>>>>>> Most often thought experiments are communicated in narrative form,
>>>>>>>> sometimes through media like a diagram. Thought experiments should be
>>>>>>>> distinguished from thinking about experiments, from merely imagining
>>>>>>>> any experiments to be conducted outside the imagination, and from
>>>>>>>> psychological experiments with thoughts. They should also be
>>>>>>>> distinguished from counterfactual reasoning in general, as they seem
>>>>>>>> to require an experimental element.
>>>>>>>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thought-experiment/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One I like is the notion of robot heaven. It's easy enough to
>>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>> a time when machines grow our food, build our shelter and do our
>>>>>>>> work. The interesting stuff comes in thinking what this would mean
>>>>>>>> for wealth distribution and the nature of society. What work would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> left to do? One can also wonder what place any of our work ethics
>>>>>>>> would have in such a society. There may be some deconstructive
>>>>>>>> effect
>>>>>>>> on just what current work ideologies are in place for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of the great improvements technology brought to my life is more
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> less never having to go into a bank. The only real innovations in
>>>>>>>> banking are the ATM and electronic banking. This kind of technology
>>>>>>>> and similar in agriculture and industry fundamentally reduce the
>>>>>>>> amount of human effort to grow and make what we need. We are in
>>>>>>>> partial state of robot heaven.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our ideologies are not up to speed. Real unemployment is massive and
>>>>>>>> education does little to provide job skills. We are sold life-styles
>>>>>>>> and products by insane advertising. Job creation seems to be in
>>>>>>>> perverse areas like financial services or bringing back attended gas-
>>>>>>>> pumps. With more efficient production we should be able to afford a
>>>>>>>> bigger social sector and I can't for the life of me understand why we
>>>>>>>> allow competition through crap wages and conditions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A great deal of what we pay for could be available more or less free.
>>>>>>>> Educational content and utility banking are examples - these are
>>>>>>>> areas
>>>>>>>> that could be ratinalised like agriculture and manufacturing.
>>>>>>>> Millions of jobs would go. We should be asking why jobs are so
>>>>>>>> central to out thinking on wealth distribution and how we might
>>>>>>>> encourage work without the rat race.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>

--