Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)

On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
> be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific
> acts or purposes ... "
>
> If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>
> it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed
>
> but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet !
>
>
>
> On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee as a
> > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick up
> > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- patterns
> > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/
> > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
> > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific
> > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight and
> > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final
> > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. Hard
> > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year old
> > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for
> > violinists.
>
> > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to farming
> > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those who
> > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work).  The obvious issue
> > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and life-
> > > style ideologies.    Slave-making ants kill the adults in their host
> > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they become
> > > adult by making them raise their own brood.  Even in enslaved ant
> > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the wider
> > > collective.  Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt
> > > peonage.
> > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on offer for
> > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any!  The Chinese refer
> > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'.  Some
> > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to note
> > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as work
> > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme).  My own
> > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that James
> > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining subjects
> > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control fraud.
> > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot.
> > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most people
> > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I clear
> > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no human
> > > can encompass the data loads.  Allan and I share problems with our
> > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year to have
> > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon my
> > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to
> > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat.  We have now done this
> > > experimentally with some tinkering.
> > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict the
> > > future - that is its purpose is for this.  We find it in non-human
> > > life-forms too.  This is related to a general science-view of why a
> > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all.  I'll
> > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants
> > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'?
>
> > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >  From another perspective one might like to appreciate the role (or a
> > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a world with
> > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to
> > undertake
> > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside our
> > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These are
> > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led becomes
> > too
> > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as does the
> > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, corrupting as in
> > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared language
> > and
> > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can present a
> > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what impetus would
> > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and where, I've
> > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring
> > currently,
> > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for sharing what
> > > > you gather. :)
>
> > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical concept of
> > things
> > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the body as
> > nothing
> > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world.  this seems to
> > be
> > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality.
> > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> > > > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > > > >     We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future
> > possibilities
> > > > >     are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a
> > consequence
> > > > >     of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left unchecked
> > can
> > > > >     be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I can tell
> > we
> > > > >     are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on as long
> > as
> > > > >     possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is that we can
> > do
> > > > >     little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue
> > strategic
> > > > >     challenges that will open those opportunities.
>
> > > > >     If I said that in 10 years the technology should be accessible
> > to
> > > > >     refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at 80+
> > > > >     conversion efficiency from common household materials in your
> > > > >     average (modern) garage there is no shortage of engineers that
> > would
> > > > >     call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today with
> > moderate
> > > > >     access to materials refining equipment, with a net generated
> > income
> > > > >     over the winter months, and it could be boosted by running a
> > > > >     greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC,
> > steam
> > > > >     reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few terms
> > for
> > > > >     that type of nut.
>
> > > > >     I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our social
> > and
> > > > >     political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able to
> > > > >     redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but we
> > insist
> > > > >     that primitive human traits are superior and sacrosanct.
>
> > > > >     Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are
> > doing
> > > > >     (not necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still
> > passin'
> > > > >     the buck here, your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad
> > > > >     telepathy isn't an option because the picture is clear but I
> > just
> > > > >     don't trust the words yet.
>
> > > > >     On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > > >         That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas need
> > time to
> > > > >         consume your complex theories in simple practice for you to
> > see
> > > > >         where
> > > > >         we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and
> > motivate
> > > > >         us. :p
>
> > > > >         On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<ashkas...@gmail.com
> > > > >         <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>>  wrote:
>
> > > > >             I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step with
> > > > >             technology, that
> > > > >             implies an intelligent management infrastructure that
> > > > >             educates and motivates
> > > > >             free agents to make contributions to the works of
> > humanity.
> > > > >             Suitably
> > > > >             educated in the workings of organisms (especially how
> > they
> > > > >             relate and
> > > > >             compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of
> > > > >             destitution, poverty,
> > > > >             mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that we
> > > > >             manage things
> > > > >             intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. If
> > this
> > > > >             progress
> > > > >             happened in a 100 years I think we would likely reduce
> > our
> > > > >             population to
> > > > >             half within the next hundred, there is nothing logical
> > about
> > > > >             reproducing ad
> > > > >             infinitum and by then the social costs should be obvious
> > > > >             enough, added to
> > > > >             the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I
> > think we
> > > > >             have a large
> > > > >             potential in voluntary acts.
>
> > > > >             Who is pie in the sky now? :p
>
> > > > >             On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote:
>
> > > > >                 If workers aren't needed for work, what will happen
> > to
> > > > >                 them?  The
> > > > >                 animal and plant world answer is generally a 'return
> > to
> > > > >                 nutrients'.
>
> > > > >                 On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--