Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

It will always have limitations
Allan

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Vam <atewari2007@gmail.com> wrote:
> " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
> be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific
> acts or purposes ... "
>
> If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>
> it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed
>
> but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet !
>
>
> On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee as a
>> parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick up
>> their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- patterns
>> can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/
>> salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
>> be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific
>> acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight and
>> adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final
>> chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. Hard
>> work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year old
>> across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for
>> violinists.
>>
>> On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to farming
>> > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those who
>> > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious issue
>> > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and life-
>> > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their host
>> > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they become
>> > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved ant
>> > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the wider
>> > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt
>> > peonage.
>> > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on offer for
>> > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese refer
>> > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'. Some
>> > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to note
>> > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as work
>> > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My own
>> > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that James
>> > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining subjects
>> > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control fraud.
>> > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot.
>> > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most people
>> > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I clear
>> > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no human
>> > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with our
>> > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year to have
>> > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon my
>> > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to
>> > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done this
>> > experimentally with some tinkering.
>> > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict the
>> > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in non-human
>> > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of why a
>> > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. I'll
>> > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants
>> > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'?
>> >
>> > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the role (or a
>> > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a world with
>> > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to
>> > > undertake
>> > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside our
>> > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These are
>> > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led becomes
>> > > too
>> > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as does the
>> > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, corrupting as in
>> > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared language
>> > > and
>> > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can present a
>> > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what impetus would
>> > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and where, I've
>> > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring
>> > > currently,
>> > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for sharing what
>> > > you gather. :)
>> >
>> > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote:
>> >
>> > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical concept of
>> > > > things
>> > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the body as
>> > > > nothing
>> > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this seems to
>> > > > be
>> > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality.
>> > > > Allan
>> >
>> > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
>> > > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future
>> > > > possibilities
>> > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a
>> > > > consequence
>> > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left unchecked
>> > > > can
>> > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I can tell
>> > > > we
>> > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on as long
>> > > > as
>> > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is that we can
>> > > > do
>> > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue
>> > > > strategic
>> > > > challenges that will open those opportunities.
>> >
>> > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be accessible
>> > > > to
>> > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at 80+
>> > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in your
>> > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of engineers that
>> > > > would
>> > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today with
>> > > > moderate
>> > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net generated
>> > > > income
>> > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by running a
>> > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC,
>> > > > steam
>> > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few terms
>> > > > for
>> > > > that type of nut.
>> >
>> > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our social
>> > > > and
>> > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able to
>> > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but we
>> > > > insist
>> > > > that primitive human traits are superior and sacrosanct.
>> >
>> > > > Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are
>> > > > doing
>> > > > (not necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still
>> > > > passin'
>> > > > the buck here, your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad
>> > > > telepathy isn't an option because the picture is clear but I
>> > > > just
>> > > > don't trust the words yet.
>> >
>> > > > On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>> >
>> > > > That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas need
>> > > > time to
>> > > > consume your complex theories in simple practice for you to
>> > > > see
>> > > > where
>> > > > we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and
>> > > > motivate
>> > > > us. :p
>> >
>> > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<ashkas...@gmail.com
>> > > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step with
>> > > > technology, that
>> > > > implies an intelligent management infrastructure that
>> > > > educates and motivates
>> > > > free agents to make contributions to the works of
>> > > > humanity.
>> > > > Suitably
>> > > > educated in the workings of organisms (especially how
>> > > > they
>> > > > relate and
>> > > > compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of
>> > > > destitution, poverty,
>> > > > mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that we
>> > > > manage things
>> > > > intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. If
>> > > > this
>> > > > progress
>> > > > happened in a 100 years I think we would likely reduce
>> > > > our
>> > > > population to
>> > > > half within the next hundred, there is nothing logical
>> > > > about
>> > > > reproducing ad
>> > > > infinitum and by then the social costs should be obvious
>> > > > enough, added to
>> > > > the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I
>> > > > think we
>> > > > have a large
>> > > > potential in voluntary acts.
>> >
>> > > > Who is pie in the sky now? :p
>> >
>> > > > On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote:
>> >
>> > > > If workers aren't needed for work, what will happen
>> > > > to
>> > > > them? The
>> > > > animal and plant world answer is generally a 'return
>> > > > to
>> > > > nutrients'.
>> >
>> > > > On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila
>> > > > Tieschmaker<shekilatieschma.....@yahoo.com
>> > > > <mailto:shekilatieschma...@yahoo.com>>
>> > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > how do you get out this group thing ?
>> >
>> > > > __________________________________
>> > > > From: James<ashkas...@gmail.com
>> > > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>>
>> > > > To: mind...@googlegroups.com
>> > > > <mailto:mind...@googlegroups.com>
>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:26 PM
>> > > > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments
>> >
>> > > > Well it is far worse (or better depending on
>> > > > who
>> > > > is looking at it), many
>> > > > of the older trades and crafts-people I've
>> > > > met
>> > > > had an appreciation for
>> > > > seeing their work as an artform. That would
>> > > > be
>> > > > my robot heaven, working
>> > > > toward a world where we can all pursue
>> > > > meaning
>> > > > and purposeful work without
>> > > > the burden of resource scarcity. What would
>> > > > it
>> > > > matter that someone wants to
>> > > > be a plumber or architect in a day when
>> > > > those
>> > > > positions are obsolete, if
>> > > > that is pursuing meaning, it would matter
>> > > > little
>> > > > more than
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>



--
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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.


I am a Natural Airgunner -

Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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