Re: Mind's Eye UFO's: Fact or Fantasy?

Hello Bill, welcome to the group. Don't take me with any authority but I
lean toward the psychology opinion on this, but then I haven't
specifically had any reason to categorize any of my own experiences as
an 'encounter', 'abduction' or cross-pollination attempt. Purely out of
the privilege of ignorance on my part, for brevity.

We've been experimenting with genetic manipulation for some time now,
albeit in a rudimentary fashion mostly. I imagine that a species
advanced enough for interstellar or dimensional travel would be further
ahead in that area too. The hard part is imagining what need there would
be, why bother to sample more than a few, why not grab bushmen and keep
a low profile?

If we ignore the technology assumption and replace it with a species
that evolved radically different from us and quickly or fundamentally
relied on things we can't imagine our tech doing yet then there might be
some value in what we would see as a devolutionary approach, whereas the
species gains immense knowledge by merging with other advanced species
(or a sampling, not necessarily most advanced but they would seem most
viable), that otherwise they couldn't achieve naturally. From the merge
can be derived valuable adaptations and characteristics which they could
incubate as long as needed or just pack up and move on while building an
interstellar genetic library. Or they might just be preparing us for the
overlord species to arrive. heh

On 10/8/2012 3:54 PM, William L Houts wrote:
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> Heh, I sort of expected that the topics discussed here are somewhat more
> serious than alien abductions and the rest of the fare which gets served
> on the George Noory radio show. I can do that, but for now I guess I'll
> watch from the sidelines until there's something I can really swat with
> my conversational tennis raquet. In the meantime, here's sending
> beneficent zen rays to you, my lightning-smart Net friends.
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> --Bill
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> On 10/8/2012 11:16 AM, Allan H wrote:
>> LOL Bill you need to be talking to an old friend of mine Dad
>> Woodruff he is the fanatic that knows all about alien abductions..
>> last I heard is was in the Livingston Montana area,, He was semi
>> involved with the church universal triumphant '' or at least his
>> friends are. Dan has a very brilliant mind,, sometimes stretching the
>> edge.. and can react very paranoid.. If you find him tell him I said
>> hi and luud sends her greetings too.. that should get you in the
>> door.
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:52 PM, William L Houts <lukaeon@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This may be returning to a point in the conversation which we have long
>>> since passed, but I'm still interested in the UFO thing. I've talked a
>>> little about my one underwhelming UFO encounter, but I'm still
>>> interested in
>>> some of the UFO baggage which has yet gone unpacked. In particular, I'm
>>> interested in the alien abduction meme. What are these people dealing
>>> with?
>>> They say, among other things, that aliens --Greys, Reptilians, and
>>> Nordics
>>> among other varieties-- are breeding them with alien races to create
>>> hybrids. Well. It hardly seems possible, as any offworld species, having
>>> evolved many light years away would hardly be compatible with Earth
>>> reproductive biology. And yet, I feel there's something compelling in
>>> these
>>> accounts. Debunkers and critics claim these are sophisticated sexual
>>> fantasies, but I really don't think so. Most abduction experiencers
>>> ("experiencers")report reactions of feeling raped rather than
>>> ennobled by
>>> these experiences. Betty and Barney Hill, probably the original
>>> parents of
>>> the modern abduction account, were recorded during their post-abduction
>>> therapy sessions and can be heard screaming in terror. Jacques Valee,
>>> whom I have referred to in the opening message of this thread,
>>> compares this
>>> abduction story to medieval accounts of abductions by fairies.
>>>
>>> I really don't think guys in space ships are raping earthfolk, but
>>> something
>>> unusual is going on, and I would like to know, or at least speculate, on
>>> what exactly is going on. Are these Space Age religious experiences,
>>> dressed
>>> up in Star Trek costume?
>>>
>>>
>>> --Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/8/2012 4:05 AM, rigsy03 wrote:
>>>> There is an area of the brain that stores certain memories. Also, I
>>>> think memories can be provoked through associations (Proust).But this
>>>> is an individual journey- not an explanation of our existence as a
>>>> species. Since we are derived from fish I am hoping I was once a wily
>>>> rainbow trout.:-) Anyway- I think memory makes sense of the past.
>>>> Beliefs are wishful thoughts that will reward our behavior until
>>>> proven otherwise- in this life and after death- but it does not
>>>> successfully explain what has happened to all those anonymous
>>>> millions.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 7, 5:01 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I believe in the possibility of something god-like. I doubt this has
>>>>> much to do with meeting it second left past the burning bush. Even
>>>>> the prophet we dare not mention seems to have been created in retro to
>>>>> control the new empire. Origin is endlessly deferred or nachtraglich
>>>>> and it is interesting we don't carry the memories on our journey and
>>>>> yet respond to fellowship and wider demands of the extended
>>>>> phenotype. Memory, false or otherwise, seems to be about making sense
>>>>> of the future. UFOs may be about of concerns, as in religion, as to
>>>>> why we are here. I am protestant by inclination, finding organised
>>>>> religion a control fraud. It could be our memories are unpacking when
>>>>> our god-spots do their thing. It's interesting in general that we see
>>>>> things that don't exist like demons, UFOs and visions.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4 Oct, 16:34, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not think the schools are looking for the brightest but rather
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are deliberately dumbing students down. Guess it is to keep them from
>>>>>> learning to think for themselves.
>>>>>> Allan
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:37 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Not many are willing to put up with the chaos and violence of public
>>>>>>> schools plus those who can afford it are thinking of the future
>>>>>>> contacts and colleges they want for their children. Parents are sick
>>>>>>> of the cultural garbage.
>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 3:51 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roughly the same thing going on here with confessional schools. The
>>>>>>>> avoidance motif is where I see the problem begins.
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 1:20 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Catholic schools are rebounding to avoid public schools and are
>>>>>>>>> attended by several faiths. The tuition is adjusted if one is a
>>>>>>>>> parishoner, i.e. less tuition since you are expected to tithe,
>>>>>>>>> so it
>>>>>>>>> probably works out to the same amount.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Gabby --it's great to meet you too. I don't know what
>>>>>>> happened with
>>>>>>>>>>> the name thing --I'm sure one William L. Houts is enough for
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone.
>>>>>>>>>>> --Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/2012 10:02 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Bill, I noticed that your screen name on the group
>>>>>>>>>>> website is
>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>>>> long. It reads: William L. Houts William L. Houts Lukaeon
>>>>>>>>>>> William
>>>>>>> L. Houts.
>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if this was your intention.
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe yes. Just so much, I do differentiate between heaven and
>>>>>>> afterlifeand their individual usability for corruption. Both
>>>>>>> terms are
>>>>>>> somehow
>>>>>>>>>>> related to the future, but the access is different. Sorry, I
>>>>>>>>>>> forgot
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> introduce myself. My name is Gabby (short for Gabriele), I am a
>>>>>>> Protestant,
>>>>>>>>>>> my first language is German, and I believe in God. I like to
>>>>>>>>>>> listen
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> other people's stories which is why I have learned to keep my
>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> short. Nice meeting you. :)
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 28, 2012 7:17:08 AM UTC+2, William L. Houts
>>>>>>> William
>>>>>>>>>>> L. Houts Lukaeon William L. Houts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if humans do dream of uncorrupted worlds, in general.
>>>>>>> You'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> think that would be universal, and it does seem to be borne
>>>>>>>>>>>> out by
>>>>>>>>>>>> Western mythologies, with some exceptions. For instance, the
>>>>>>> Greeks had
>>>>>>>>>>>> Olympus, but except for Heracles no one got to go there;
>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>>> went to Hades, which was gloomy and boring if you were lucky
>>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>> land there in general population, and terrifying if the gods
>>>>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>> you in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tartarus. And the Romans didn't seem to place faith in any sort
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> afterlife at all, which is one of the main reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>> whyChristianity
>>>>>>> sold
>>>>>>>>>>>> like hotcakes. Eastern religions such as Buddhism had various
>>>>>>> hells and
>>>>>>>>>>>> heavens, but they were sort of besides the point: your karma
>>>>>>>>>>>> is /
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to boil down to nothing and liberate you from the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wheel
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rebirth, which was supposed to put you in Nirvana, which was
>>>>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Heaven than it was a Nowhere. And Taoism doesn't have much
>>>>>>>>>>>> to say
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> heavenly afterworlds; its whole point is to make this world
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> and balanced and leaves heavens to the individual to figure
>>>>>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But as to your question of whether humans long for uncorrupted
>>>>>>> worlds, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think that besides the Abrahamic religions noone takes them
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>> seriously. And I think they've got a point: I mean, if you're
>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>> your present existence at all seriously, then just what is an
>>>>>>> afterlife
>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to be about? Are we supposed to be eating bonbons all
>>>>>>> day and
>>>>>>>>>>>> living in some version of American luxury? I'd like to
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Heaven --which for me looks like a kind of liberal college
>>>>>>>>>>>> town,
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> libraries and funky old cinema houses-- but all of that
>>>>>>>>>>>> seems kind
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> empty if there's no gravitas, no seriousness. Without death,
>>>>>>> without a
>>>>>>>>>>>> final marker which howls at us, Do what you must do NOW and die
>>>>>>> knowing
>>>>>>>>>>>> that you've used your life well--without that, I think heaven
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> become kind of slouchy and boring, or worse. Unless, of course,
>>>>>>> what's
>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting for us on the other side is something superrational but
>>>>>>>>>>>> beautiful, like being absorbed into the godhead, if such
>>>>>>>>>>>> there be.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So in answer to your question, I think we do dream of uncorrupt
>>>>>>> worlds,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we examine them too closely, they tend to be bustable
>>>>>>>>>>>> soap
>>>>>>>>>>>> bubbles. And maybe I lack imagination, but I wonder, how
>>>>>>>>>>>> could it
>>>>>>> be any
>>>>>>>>>>>> other way? Frankly, I'd like to be told how. I sound sensible
>>>>>>> about all
>>>>>>>>>>>> of this if a little pessimistic, but in reality I'm a scared
>>>>>>> ex-Catholic
>>>>>>>>>>>> who is terrified of death and wants to solve the Big Question
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>>> they're performing Last Rites on his sorry ass.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/27/2012 7:20 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder where you put the mythological and religious
>>>>>>> other-worldlies-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from gods to guardian angels, etc.? Or the construct of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dante's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Divine Comedy", for instance. Do humans long for uncorrupted
>>>>>>> worlds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 27, 6:23 pm, William L Houts <luka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm with the pragmatists on the question of intelligent alien
>>>>>>> species.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many scientists who speculate on this sort of thing --though
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really aren't that many of them-- say that such species
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resemble anything so comforting as a humanoid physiology,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're partly mistaken. Surely there would be surprises in
>>>>>>> the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature cooks up life on other planets with radically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chemistries than our dear old Mama Earth. But I think there's
>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose that many alien species would resemble us. After all,
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> species we might imagine has to cope with gravity as it
>>>>>>> evolves. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're much more likely to evolve some form of locomotion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involves two, four or six pedal extremities (as Fats Waller
>>>>>>> calls
>>>>>>>>>>>> them)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than three or five: even-numbered legs are less wobbly
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amenable to balanced movement which consumes fewer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calories. .
>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense organs like eyes and ears are likely to be located
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in or
>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a head, as there is survival value in having sense organs
>>>>>>> located
>>>>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a brain, or whatever such species might use for brains.
>>>>>>> Finally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone in the cosmos requires energy to get going, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to evolve photosynthesis and take their energy directly
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sun or suns, or they're going to take their sunbeams
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indirectly
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consuming something lower in the food chain. I'm sure there
>>>>>>> are lots
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution pathways I'm leaving out, seeing as I'm a curious
>>>>>>> poetrather
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than a serious scientist type of guy, but I think these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notions
>>>>>>> are,
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allan named other ideas of mine, sensible provisos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS. I left out centipedes and millipedes with their scores of
>>>>>>> legs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think y'all's get what I'm saying here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/27/2012 3:57 PM, archytas wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen any UFOs and tend not to be much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who claim to have - at least without Bill's sensible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provisos.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speed of thought as a brain process is slower than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light-speed
>>>>>>> - but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then I'm basically a tropical fish realist. I'd have a bet
>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one in this group would really have much of a definition of
>>>>>>> light-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speed and the Ricel curvature tensor, Euler Langrangian and
>>>>>>> the rest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Einstein's field equations. I mean no offence and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't do
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this science myself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you point out to a physicist that the people from the
>>>>>>> future who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have invented the time machine are in extraordinarily short
>>>>>>> supply
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "I just flew in from the Land of the Dead
>>> and boy are my arms tired."
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
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