Re: Mind's Eye Constructor Theory Thinking

I'm not sure on souls Allan - what does seem clear is we aren't
trusted with much knowledge if there is a lot more to know - or could
not serve existing purpose and 'travel' with that knowledge, or we are
a discarded mistake.

On 26 Nov, 08:47, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are very right there Neil.. the only possible solutions lies in
> religious beliefs..  that comes down to do souls exist  and the
> origine of souls..  My opinion is well known yet I am still open to
> ideas.
> Allan
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> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 11:45 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > We don't see to have much clue when it comes to bigger pictures Allan.
>
> > On 25 Nov, 09:31, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> maybe humans have this same basic hardwired instinct as the bees for
> >> looking out the hive of humanity only the age of reason and
> >> selfishness has over ridden it in most cases..
> >> interesting comparison:
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:15 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > We have now uncovered a rich repertoire of behaviours under the hive
> >> > lid. Studies of the choreography of the waggle dance, for instance,
> >> > have revealed that a worker will interrupt another's jive with a butt
> >> > to the head if it has found danger - a spider, say - at the location
> >> > (Current Biology, vol 20, p 310). Bees also display an extraordinary
> >> > range of housekeeping chores, including spring cleaning, mutual
> >> > grooming and a form of surveillance in which "bouncers" guard
> >> > entrances against intruders. The hive has even evolved its own air
> >> > conditioning; when temperatures soar, the workers sprinkle water over
> >> > the honeycomb and beat their wings to produce a cooling draft.  In
> >> > total we have now recorded around 60 separate behaviours for worker
> >> > honeybees, including six different kinds of dance (Current Biology,
> >> > vol 19, p R995). These achievements seem to overshadow the abilities
> >> > of many mammals. Rabbits are thought to show about 30 distinct
> >> > behaviours, and the beaver has about 50 in its busy life felling
> >> > trees, building damns and storing food. Even the bottlenose dolphin's
> >> > 120 or so routines are only about twice the number a worker honeybee
> >> > manages.
>
> >> > Despite this bulging portfolio of behaviours, many zoologists have
> >> > remained sceptical about apian intelligence, believing they were
> >> > seeing hard-wired instinct rather than flexible thought. "The brain of
> >> > a bee is the size of a grass seed and is not made for thinking," said
> >> > von Frisch in 1962. However, that view is now changing, as Chittka and
> >> > others discover a surprising mental agility behind the bee's bumbling
> >> > exterior. Chittka's first revelation came while he was investigating
> >> > the way honeybees navigate to a flower patch. Varying the number of
> >> > 3.5-metre-tall tents between a hive and a feeder - "It looked more
> >> > like an art installation than an experiment" - he found that foragers
> >> > seemed to count landmarks rather than using the overall distance when
> >> > working out where to land. Subsequent research has confirmed this
> >> > numeracy, showing that bees can match the quantity shown in simple
> >> > pictures of shapes to find a reward. In one trial they were shown
> >> > three leaves and then had to choose between two and three lemons, for
> >> > instance - a test they passed with ease. The ability to match signs
> >> > using different symbols is crucial, showing that the bees did not just
> >> > rely on a memory of a specific image but understood the underlying
> >> > number. But this ability is limited: bees can only count to four.
>
> >> > There seems an endless supply of uninteresting people rigsy - I am not
> >> > sure mice are so discriminating!  Old cops would appear a couple of
> >> > yeas into retirement looking much younger and ask when our (job)
> >> > sentences were coming to an end.  My scientist colleagues nearly all
> >> > resent not being into enquiry.  The experiments with mice involve
> >> > dicing brains - there are physical changes due to isolation in tissues
> >> > surrounding neurons.
>
> >> > On 23 Nov, 13:38, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Wolfram Alpha - now there's an example of something not doing what it
> >> >> said on the tin at the launch!  I shall go back.
>
> >> >> They've found a wasp described as having a 'clock work brain'.  Seen
> >> >> most of your finds James - which only shows our interests overlap.
> >> >> Your take on Deutsch hadn't occurred to me and set my mind spinning.
> >> >> I'm after a holy grail - something that would be a framework for
> >> >> rational discussion.  Took a sleeping tablet last night because I
> >> >> couldn't switch off - a problem my laptop is having since W8!  It now
> >> >> boots as rapidly as my first PC from a 5 inch floppy.
>
> >> >> Will get t your links and then walk dog (tail wag as I write this!) to
> >> >> let news spin.
>
> >> >> On 23 Nov, 04:48, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > Here's a neat reference to brain development in a tiny wasp which
> >> >> > undergoes major neural expansion when it leaves the nest, dendrites to
> >> >> > the tune of seven to eight mm long in a brain the size of two grains of
> >> >> > sand.
>
> >> >> > Tiny But Adaptable Wasp Brains Show Ability To Alter Their Architecture
> >> >> >    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091014144738.htm
>
> >> >> > An offshoot for a member here, my father in law mentioned working in
> >> >> > audio biofeedback training \brain wave states with a woman 40 years ago
> >> >> > with successful results using EEG equipment. The tech may be available
> >> >> > in nano-sensor array headsets today (a gaming rig/platform).
>
> >> >> > I'm out of steam tonight, reading about exocortex theories, the memex
> >> >> > and ended up at this fascinating timeline at wolfram alpha!
>
> >> >> >http://www.wolframalpha.com/docs/timeline/computable-knowledge-histor...
>
> >> >> > Be well, happy turkey day, thanks gabby! :)
>
> >> >> > ps. These are pretty neat too, apparently I became fascinated by wasp
> >> >> > neurology a couple months ago.
>
> >> >> > Alien Wasps Abduct, Drop Ants to Get Food:http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/04/110406-aliens-wasps-a...
>
> >> >> > Wasps Can Recognize Faces - Social species relies on recognition to keep
> >> >> > the peace, study suggests.http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/11/111202-wasps-people-f...
>
> >> >> > On 11/20/2012 3:49 PM, archytas wrote:
>
> >> >> > > I would certainly sign up for the brain-machine interface and a bit
> >> >> > > of  splicing with a prawn to see in 16 colours (preferably with an
> >> >> > > alien who sees the dark).  One possibility is that we don't know how
> >> >> > > to use our brains much - capacity is massive potentially.  I rather
> >> >> > > like the idea that biological intelligence is short-lived and other
> >> >> > > civilisations have passed through it.  Stuff like Skydrive (which
> >> >> > > sadly are attempts to rent software to us at high prices) could be
> >> >> > > conceived as a thought-cloud in which individuality as we think of it
> >> >> > > becomes as redundant as the PC once netware works.  We may see a
> >> >> > > network in which all skills are embodied and means of production
> >> >> > > available to all.  In some parts of science we are thinking the
> >> >> > > machines are up to a lot we don't understand already.
> >> >> > > More in my own field - we are finding brain changes associated with
> >> >> > > social isolation.  In mice these changes leave the mice uninterested
> >> >> > > in new mice (the opposite of normal).  The brain is much more plastic
> >> >> > > than most imagine and humanity is changing.  On the familiarity thing
> >> >> > > James, E = mc2 is actually as slightly larger equation including p
> >> >> > > (momentum) and looks like the right-angled triangle introduced to us
> >> >> > > in Pythagoras' theorem.  I take Deutsch as warning us against Bacon's
> >> >> > > Idol of the Theatre.
>
> >> >> > > On 20 Nov, 04:56, James<ashkas...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> >> > >> Whew Neil, I lack the time to grasp it well, though my instincts tell me
> >> >> > >> to re-skim Pierce and modal logics to find out why it sounds so
> >> >> > >> familiar. In my limited view S4 really bites us in the cognitive bias
> >> >> > >> (meh, posterior) and Deutsche lays that out well on counterfactuals IMO.
> >> >> > >> Hope I get more time soon to compare his robot with the 3,2,1
> >> >> > >> configuration in Trikonic geometry (while fresh in memory).
>
> >> >> > >> Again, it points me toward a much less dramatic revolution for our
> >> >> > >> equation (depending on which emotions one prefers), transhumanism one
> >> >> > >> way or another (good and or bad), a very exciting time in the
> >> >> > >> anthropocene is it not? :p
>
> >> >> > >> Hope all is well everyone!
> >> >> > >> Best Regards
>
> >> >> > >> On 11/16/2012 11:14 AM, archytas wrote:
>
> >> >> > >>> arxiv.org/abs/1210.7439
> >> >> > >>> Should produce David Deutsch's paper free.
>
> >> >> > >>> This is a good example of science philosophy trying to shift thinking
> >> >> > >>> boundaries.  There's some physics in it, but probably not enough to
> >> >> > >>> put off a few readers in here.  David works on how science may be
> >> >> > >>> restricted by our traditional myths of origin - and that we tend to
> >> >> > >>> posit origins (Big Bang etc.) that may be as unhelpful as god concepts
> >> >> > >>> to science (as opposed to spiritual discussion).
>
> >> >> > >>> He also challenges ideas of mathematical a priori - such as Kant's
> >> >> > >>> claim to know the geometry of the universe in such a manner.
>
> >> >> > >>> The paper is speculative and I read it because I'm tinkering with
> >> >> > >>> ideas of what economics might be if it was a science.  I'm not a
> >> >> > >>> believer in scientific method beyond tropical fish realism.  What has
> >> >> > >>> always struck me about economics is that it seems the prime reason for
> >> >> > >>> not doing things because it renders our hopes impossible.  A truly
> >> >> > >>> scientific theory seeks to show us what is possible and what won't
>
> ...
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