Re: Mind's Eye Re: Science and religion in modernity

Literature tries to be tidy but life is not so something is always
"wanting".

On Nov 1, 7:47 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> MIT have a current exhibition that seems to get somewhere near my
> interest -http://arts.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/Holocene-PR-Final.pdf
>
> This is some of the blurb -
>
> Through the work of artists spanning from the 19th to the 21st
> centuries, the exhibition proposes that art acts as an investigative
> and experimental form of inquiry, addressing or amending what is
> explained through traditional scientific or
> mathematical means: entropy, matter, time (cosmic, geological),
> energy, topology, mimicry, perception,
> consciousness, et cetera. Sometimes employing scientific methodologies
> or the epistemology of science, other
> times investigating phenomena not restricted to any scientific
> discipline, art can be seen as a form of
> investigation into the physical and natural world. In this sense, both
> art and science share an interest in
> knowledge and phenomena, yet are subject to different logics,
> principles of reasoning, and conclusions. In the
> Holocene suggests that art is itself an account of the world, and can
> expand the potential of
> investigative and experimental activity.
> Emblematic of the central premise of the exhibition, Germaine Kruip's
> film Aesthetics as a Way of Survival
> (2009) documents the phenomenon in which the male bowerbird arranges
> colored objects as part of its
> courtship display, suggesting an aesthetic faculty at work even within
> evolutionary behavior. Friedrich Fröbel
> devised a pedagogical system centered on childhood learning through
> color and form. Helen Mirra's sculptures
> address geological time and extremophile forms of living matter.
> Robert Smithson's interest in crystallography and
> entropy are reflected in both his Four-Sided Vortex (1965) and
> Partially Buried Woodshed (1970). Daria
> Martin's Sensorium Tests (2012) revolves around a recently recognized
> neurological condition called "mirror—
> touch synaesthesia." For FT Marinetti, abstract mathematical objects
> could stimulate in his readers the
> subjective experience of the sounds, smells, and motions of modern
> life; Iannis Xenakis' Diamorphoses (1957)
> and Mycenae Alpha (1978) utilize mathematical operations as
> compositional strategies for creating music.
> Alfred Jarry's "pataphysics," John Latham's "Time—Base Theory," and
> João Maria Gusmão and Pedro Paiva's
> "Abyssology" are all examples of speculative systems of knowledge
> constructed by the artists to address gaps
> in historical, philosophical, and scientific discourse.
>
> I resist chocolate-box aesthetics (however posh) and appreciation done
> to establish superiority of sophistication and am wary of concepts of
> elegance and beauty applied to science (most scientists I've known
> thick of this as 'waiting for a blow-job from God' - the world always
> proves untidy).  In a way, I hope art might light up (say) the
> financial system in a way extended argument cannot.  I've just
> finished a novel trying to do this, but can't get it to work - but how
> could it when most of our shared concepts from literature are the
> blocks to understanding?
>
> On 23 Oct, 04:34, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > What a pleasure to read these recents posts.//I've noticed the
> > politicians aren't saying much to retirees unless they think we are
> > over the hill and expendable- except we tend to VOTE.// I only have
> > one pair of reader glasses that are rx. I can get by with cheapies for
> > cooking and shopping but the eye doctor told me this was not a very
> > bright plan. One eye will not get the right whatever.// I have been
> > rearranging closets and dressers of late and can't remember where I
> > have switched things so it has been a riot trying to dress.//I did
> > come across a line of Matthew Arnold's that a little math goes a long
> > way for most of humanity and remembered my amazement walking into the
> > wrong classroom and seeing four or five blackboards covered with some
> > algebraic "work of art"- for it is an art.// I don't really need a lot
> > of money but it just costs a lot to live in western economies built on
> > self-sufficiency rather than tribal respect for the wise elders. :-)
>
> > On Oct 22, 12:22 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I have real problems remembering where I left my glasses (though not
> > > the ones with beer in) - even the IMF are considering the old Chicago
> > > Plan  (1936) for fairer money.  We live as paupers in the land of
> > > plenty in my view.http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/
> > > wp12202.pdf
>
> > > It's long and boring, but the gist is in the short conclusion.  It
> > > lacks your insight into what we are worshipping Al.
>
> > > On 22 Oct, 07:27, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > People are expected to change and grow. the errors of the  past are
> > > > meant to be out grown and evolved into a life that is kinder and
> > > > gentler with others coming to the forefront leaving the self centered
> > > > being behind,,  As I look around I am left wondering if this is what
> > > > is occurring,,  I see wealth being more and more concentrated in the
> > > > greedy few..  I see the traditional higher power being replaced by a
> > > > god of gold and wealth, that is worshiped with immense intensity..
> > > > an intensity that if applied to eliminating poverty ,, poverty would
> > > > be eliminated world wide within a few short years.
>
> > > > I have not forgotten anything to my knowledge Neil  I can remember my
> > > > childhood to date in great detail  recall is not the problem and fear
> > > > well that is more to keep me from getting killed..  I tend to like
> > > > invisibility  good idea
> > > > Allan
>
> > > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:36 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > With memories as bad as mine and yours Allan we have to invent for
> > > > > fear of remembering we have forgotten everything.
>
> > > > > On 21 Oct, 19:00, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> What happens when your whole concepts begin changing..   strange
> > > > >> things like the entire universe becomes small  and you have to go out
> > > > >> side its bounds..  Being a soul being what happens if the creation
> > > > >> soul is earlier than than the creation of the universe?
> > > > >> Allan
>
> > > > >> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:09 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> > Science doesn't fascinate me in the way some literature and people can
> > > > >> > generally - I suspect the 'enthusiasm' of the popularisation of the
> > > > >> > subjects.  I concur on the predicament element rigs - insightive.  It
> > > > >> > seems a mistake to me to try and place god in some scientific-
> > > > >> > dimensional space (though I miss Pat) and I wonder instead whether the
> > > > >> > god-positions people hack out are as baseless as, say, phlogiston - we
> > > > >> > need some new thinking.
>
> > > > >> > Science and critical history have demonstrated much religious text is
> > > > >> > fable.  We repeatedly see that image management hides much that is
> > > > >> > foul under 'preaching' - here our current examples would be Jimmy
> > > > >> > Saville, Baby P, priestly paedophiles and Hillsborough (scouting in
> > > > >> > the US etc.) - but I'd say we may be on the brink of realising
> > > > >> > economics is equally vile.
>
> > > > >> > I can imagine spending a few weeks with a group living human-
> > > > >> > constrained lives in a collective of the future.  A woman kisses me
> > > > >> > goodbye.  She will not see me again because I'm off to a near-space
> > > > >> > terminal built off Alpha Proxima.  From there I'm relativity
> > > > >> > travelling to the edge of this universe to undertake genetic
> > > > >> > transformation beyond the gene-splicing that has allowed me to travel
> > > > >> > in space.  I see in 16 colours thanks to a shrimp and can enter
> > > > >> > cryostasis thanks to genes from Arctic fish.  I interface with
> > > > >> > machines and their learning directly.  I can no longer replicate as a
> > > > >> > human - etc.  Now I'm off to meet and form a collective with beings
> > > > >> > who perceive much of the world we can only postulate.  In traditional
> > > > >> > science fiction these 'dark beings' would be bastards intent on taking
> > > > >> > over the human world.  What I don't see is any focus on a future in
> > > > >> > which the rather soppy human-emotional ties are broken - a future in
> > > > >> > which ...
>
> > > > >> > One might ask how the creature I have become would get his jollies.
> > > > >> > One can go the other way in history and ask what religion has actually
> > > > >> > done.  We are not inventive enough about god.
>
> > > > >> > On 21 Oct, 14:50, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> And some feel science is boring unless it can be translated into
> > > > >> >> everyday life in meaningful ways.
>
> > > > >> >> On Oct 20, 3:50 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> > We travel at 60k plus miles an hour in the solar system and 500K
> > > > >> >> > through the galaxy in our system.  I tend to believe we can measure
> > > > >> >> > this kind of thing and that we are always left with questions like
> > > > >> >> > Allan's about before after and beyond.  Hitch-hikers' Guide probably
> > > > >> >> > gets to the irony.  Quite a few of us discount priests and text-
> > > > >> >> > authority without giving up on spirit.  Spinoza remains the clearest
> > > > >> >> > example.
>
> > > > >> >> > Creation stories end up in infinite regress - scientific and otherwise
> > > > >> >> > - and beg the question of 'what came before that' by positing a
> > > > >> >> > fiction of something that needs no creator or origin.  I don't believe
> > > > >> >> > god whipped up the Grand Canyon, but in the limits of our thinking
> > > > >> >> > something whipped up something that led to the evolution of our planet
> > > > >> >> > etc.  I tend to think science rather than literature may lead to a
> > > > >> >> > different way of seeing this and surviving until this is possible.
> > > > >> >> > Literature is generally bland and lacks depth - though there are great
> > > > >> >> > moments.  I suspect one of the key issues is raised by Gabby a lot of
> > > > >> >> > the time - we need to replace current authority and know the irony is
> > > > >> >> > such attempts just produce the same old business as usual (WB Yeates
> > > > >> >> > was good on this).
>
> > > > >> >> > The stuff on thermodynamics above is very similar in method to
> > > > >> >> > Einstein and what we might now term Wittgensteinian deconstruction -
> > > > >> >> > trying to find the common elements and mistakes in various competing
> > > > >> >> > arguments and readdress the apparent conflict.  Molly has some words
> > > > >> >> > on this too.
>
> > > > >> >> > On 20 Oct, 20:37, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> > > google books had a copy up online, it may still be there.  Used book
> > > > >> >> > > outlets like Alibris will allow you to put in the book you are searching
> > > > >> >> > > for and notify you when a copy becomes available for sale by a store that
> > > > >> >> > > uses their service.  Other than that, you may find some good articles about
> > > > >> >> > > it with excerpts online.  for Einstein fans, it is a favorite.
>
> > > > >> >> > > On Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:14:03 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> > > > how does a person get a hold of the original text..??
> > > > >> >> > > > Allan
>
> > > > >> >> > > > On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> > > >> The Einstein "The World As I See It," originally began as his ponderance
> > > > >> >> > > >> of something greater than science, and acknowledgement of spirit in action.
> > > > >> >> > > >>  The original edition is the best, as his editors put together texts with
> > > > >> >> > > >> lectures for him under the same name, and those books have an entirely
> > > > >> >> > > >> different flavor.
>
> > > > >> >> > > >> From my view, "knowing" is not the end of it, but the beginning.
>
> > > > >> >> > > >> On Saturday, October 20, 2012 8:09:19 AM UTC-4, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>> Honestly, Vam, I don't think that it was Einstein's lack of knowledge
> > > > >> >> > > >>> that made him pose such a daft (in the sense of limited) question. I read
> > > > >> >> > > >>> this as a description of the state of occidental science at his time - the
> > > > >> >> > > >>> conflict between the ontological and the constructivist explanatory models
> > > > >> >> > > >>> of the nature of knowledge.
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Vam <atewa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> You spoke of Einstein, about his " only " interest being whether God<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God> had
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> any choice in manifesting the universe and this observed creation.
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> My own suggestion is that if we do not know enough we will always think
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> along those lines.
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> To the uninitiate, the desktops of today would seem to be thinking
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> entities ...
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> *So, do we know enough ?*
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EBJSz8MhWQU/UIJGzwpvR3I/AAAAAAAAB0...>
>
> > > > >> >> > > >>>> On Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:36:45 AM UTC+5:30,
>
> > ...
>
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>
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