45 minutes to go My best wishes for the year 2013 hoping it will be
prosperous and a happy year no matter how you define it,,
Luud and Allan
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
Either is preferable to a room full of mobile ring tones. Merde mon
vieux, pas plus de Francais devant les enfants!
On 31 Dec, 15:27, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> question
> If a shit is the call of nature..
> does that make a fart a missed call?
> Allan
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> Of course I talk to myself,
> Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
vieux, pas plus de Francais devant les enfants!
On 31 Dec, 15:27, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> question
> If a shit is the call of nature..
> does that make a fart a missed call?
> Allan
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> Of course I talk to myself,
> Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
I'm a bit more inclined to think we need to get inside our
institutions and kick out the windows to let fresh air in Moll. If
Gabby had been Luther she'd still be negotiating the fine print on the
abolition of indulgences in 'Germany' with a papal nuncio. It's
possible to imagine Europe would have been bored into peace for long
enough for a proper conquest of the Americas in fellowship other than
expressed in smallpox blankets. From little acorns ...
Many lines have multiple meanings rigs - A la votre means the opposite
of cheers if accompanied by one raised finger. I once misheard a
Frenchman call me salud rather than toast me salut. He had barely
enough English to tell me he was insulting me, highly aggressive body
language, but collapsed laughing when I assured him his insults were
nay bother to a Scotsman who would consider friendly behaviour from
the French as unacceptable as a smile from an English assassin.
On 31 Dec, 15:43, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "One can know being small, insignificant and
> even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine."
>
> The descriptors fall away, whether or not accurate in judgement, and life
> still shines brilliantly. Always.
>
> "There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard
> Cohen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 31, 2012 8:52:14 AM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>
> > You are right as ever Gabs. Max Stirner lives! We may be that 'union
> > of egoists' and contradictory collection of 'talentless outsiders'
> > waiting to wander in from Wimbledon Common to be exploited by
> > publishers for writing cant about Fichte - a kind of intellectual rags
> > to riches story sold on the wonder that philosophy ever entered our
> > burrows in the first place. Given the life of a Womble I doubt I
> > would leave it. A French cook, mistress and nanny to the children who
> > call me Uncle Bulgaria and a secure hole in the ground only serve to
> > remind me I never did meet Madame Cholet and live in the Sartrean
> > nightmare that reality might well doom me to being quartered with a
> > German humourist. Even Maxwell is only truly my pal as I let him off
> > the lead to open country (he needs the lead only because of his
> > tendency to play with traffic). He's moping about now doing rigs'
> > body language things to make me guilty enough to take him out in this
> > morning's rain. A cat is taking solace on my lap after extracting a
> > stroke fest with her claws gently placed behind my ears. Max is a
> > wonderful creature, taking on such preening duties and offering play
> > to all without favour. He has a squirrel pal living near one of his
> > field's bigger trees. He lets out a kind of whimpering howl of
> > delight when he spots her - even though she gives him fleas.
>
> > If we were good at the 'body-language' thing rigs we'd have no
> > advertising and wouldn't fall for the next political clown's lies
> > about WMD in Iraq. I was trained in something called 'micro-
> > expressions' and later cognitive interviewing. Both taught me I was
> > no good at spotting lying! Good liars never give you anything you can
> > check up on in a timescale that matters (before they can run off and
> > such). Kids and some adults claiming abuse sometimes make up
> > elaborate fantasies - in a recent case a woman claimed she had lost a
> > baby as a result of a rape but in fact had never been pregnant (hard
> > evidence tests). In one of my own cases I listened to several kids
> > describe a dungeon in a house on a hill. It was complete fantasy -
> > but the abuse was real and took place in a hotel. In another case I
> > was about to call social services believing the prostitute mother had
> > 'lost' her kids whilst drunk-drugged (house was squalid). I heard the
> > cutlery draw rattle as I put a kettle on the gas to make her a cup of
> > tea. She'd looked harmless and dead-beat until she came at me with
> > the knife. As I called the ambulance for her she admitted she'd
> > drowned her kids in the canal. The case had already been closed by
> > three uniforms as 'NFA' (no further action) and I'd heard one of them
> > say 'he's only staying to get stuck up her' as they left. The
> > disgruntled force duty officer, pulled from her own warm pit, was
> > writing-up discipline forms on me when the shallow water diving team
> > found the kids two hours later. It was inappropriate for me to have
> > exceeded my rank in calling them out and incurring the expenditure.
> > It took 3 months for our rubber heels to drop the charges against me.
> > Eventually they decided I was the ranking detective at the time, but
> > they'd actually realised by then the kids might still have been alive
> > when I called the squad out. Truth was a desk sergeant had. I may be
> > too dumb to do the body language thingy rigs - I'm a social inadequate
> > in many respects, bored by smalltalk and cultural sign. I have good
> > corner of the eye vision and hearing and some strange sense of duty to
> > do something for a couple of waifs gone missing.
>
> > We probably confuse body language with more general aspects of us
> > being social animals. I can't see you abandoning those kids as others
> > did rigs and you'd probably have wielded the kettle as well as me.
> > You might well have continued making the tea as I did. She told me,
> > inaccurately, where the kids were over the brew. She was still
> > lying. Cops had lied to me about searching the house. She had 4 kids
> > not two. The youngest two were upstairs - we saved them. Previous
> > rubbish officers took part in frantic search. I 'forgot' what they
> > had initially told me. I doubt this story quite says why - but I
> > regard language as institutional. I might speak to my sister as I do
> > to Gabby above - spite between friends is not without its love. I
> > even love what spreadsheets can do, but hate most of what they are
> > used for.
>
> > What is the "body language" of the 'rich-a-giving' Allan? Why do I,
> > once believing Blair was a philanthropist, now see him as Bliar, the
> > steaming turd reborn after absolution and his cosy chat with god? I
> > do literally see him differently - yet I hope this is on the facts
> > beyond this manipulation of the matrix. The matrix is now lying to us
> > as surely as Soviet performance managers or the sociopaths who have
> > learned they do not need to hide their victims in cellars. Thieving
> > is only part of the spreadsheet Gabs - noble in the anti-IRA-romantic
> > 'Ordinary Decent Criminal' and Robin Hood - dire in funnelling 90% to
> > 1% and discounting most of the work still mostly done by women to 0%
> > of GDP along with most of the rest that matters. The world of
> > banksters and economists is much worse than the one in which I used to
> > meet prostitutes and people I could bang-up for criminal behaviour.
> > The central theory is probably control fraud - Bill Black is a good
> > start but here we use shorthand in facework lest we breach politesse
> > in the accusation of knowing too much (wasn't Norbert Elias German?).
>
> > In a way I agree with rigs - we need something as simple as the sign
> > of two people about to share the same bed - an economics without
> > words, ludicrously abstracted maths and that people can use for their
> > own purposes. This said, I must note I have often ended-up in bed
> > with the wrong partners! Must now do that body language that
> > convinces Maxwell I am his walk-butler. New Year's Eve so I'm off to
> > the rum district and loose women - which these days means bed by 8
> > p.m. in some gratitude such forays in my professional past only arise
> > when my eyes shut and trauma stalks. Max knows when to lick my face
> > and rouse me to the whiskey for a good night's sleep after we have
> > braced the streets once more. The lad himself gets what's left over
> > from tea and sometimes lets the cats have first go. I admire his
> > benevolence and awareness of feline claws!
>
> > A bonne chance mes amis. One can know being small, insignificant and
> > even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine. My amazon
> > voucher is cashed in, books read, computing tablet averted (eyes too
> > poor, fingers too senile), shotgun sold, CO2 pellet gun purchased
> > (taking Allan's advice), grandson on X-box crusade, Sue waiting
> > without protest for new car and Gabby's youthful patience a thing of
> > my past. How many Douglases does one get per voucher my dear? I
> > simply don't know.
>
> > On 31 Dec, 06:31, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually Rigsy the comment of the Generous Rich is an insult though
> > > there are a few and yes I have meet several among the rich they
> > > appear to give massive amounts of money,, in reality they are
> > > hoarders and an uncaring lot.. Look at the number of them living off
> > > the national wage and giving the rest to or helping their fellow man.?
> > > You said the comment I see it differently than you do..
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:10 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Have we been insulted or complimented?
>
> > > > On Dec 28, 3:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> I didn't get any books for Christmas, but Amazon and Douglas gift
> > vouchers.
> > > >> That's great! I'll be able to use them when I need something.
>
> > > >> I like reading here. No author could have come up with such an
> > anarchic
> > > >> plot, ghostly setting and high amount of under-performers and be able
> > to
> > > >> sell it as a product. :)
>
> > > >> I wouldn't be able to sign this thievery is the root of all evil
> > theory.
> > > >> The possessive 'have' causes wanted and unwanted effects, that's
> > right
> > > >> though. Control comes into play. The Golden Calf never to become an
> > > >> ordinary cow or bull.
>
> > > >> Put back perspective in context and try again, I say.
>
> > > >> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 17:34:01 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>
> > > >> > I finally have my own copy of David Graeber's 'Debt: the first 5000
> > > >> > years', Hann and Hart's 'Economic Anthropology' and David Orell's
> > > >> > 'Economyths' - I've been dip[ping in and already know they don't
> > offer
> > > >> > much I don't know or how to frame economics problems so enough of
> > us
> > > >> > could understand them. It's good to know others, like me, think
> > > >> > thievery is the root and that the science alleged to be involved is
> > > >> > counterfeit stuff from the 19th century. Graeber finishes by
> > saying
> > > >> > we should have a debt jubilee and start again (after historical
> > > >> > analysis). I'll get through the books by posting them in the
> > toilet
> > > >> > and bathroom as relief from the day job. My guess is we are really
> > as
> > > >> > stuck in a confrontation with power
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
institutions and kick out the windows to let fresh air in Moll. If
Gabby had been Luther she'd still be negotiating the fine print on the
abolition of indulgences in 'Germany' with a papal nuncio. It's
possible to imagine Europe would have been bored into peace for long
enough for a proper conquest of the Americas in fellowship other than
expressed in smallpox blankets. From little acorns ...
Many lines have multiple meanings rigs - A la votre means the opposite
of cheers if accompanied by one raised finger. I once misheard a
Frenchman call me salud rather than toast me salut. He had barely
enough English to tell me he was insulting me, highly aggressive body
language, but collapsed laughing when I assured him his insults were
nay bother to a Scotsman who would consider friendly behaviour from
the French as unacceptable as a smile from an English assassin.
On 31 Dec, 15:43, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "One can know being small, insignificant and
> even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine."
>
> The descriptors fall away, whether or not accurate in judgement, and life
> still shines brilliantly. Always.
>
> "There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard
> Cohen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 31, 2012 8:52:14 AM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>
> > You are right as ever Gabs. Max Stirner lives! We may be that 'union
> > of egoists' and contradictory collection of 'talentless outsiders'
> > waiting to wander in from Wimbledon Common to be exploited by
> > publishers for writing cant about Fichte - a kind of intellectual rags
> > to riches story sold on the wonder that philosophy ever entered our
> > burrows in the first place. Given the life of a Womble I doubt I
> > would leave it. A French cook, mistress and nanny to the children who
> > call me Uncle Bulgaria and a secure hole in the ground only serve to
> > remind me I never did meet Madame Cholet and live in the Sartrean
> > nightmare that reality might well doom me to being quartered with a
> > German humourist. Even Maxwell is only truly my pal as I let him off
> > the lead to open country (he needs the lead only because of his
> > tendency to play with traffic). He's moping about now doing rigs'
> > body language things to make me guilty enough to take him out in this
> > morning's rain. A cat is taking solace on my lap after extracting a
> > stroke fest with her claws gently placed behind my ears. Max is a
> > wonderful creature, taking on such preening duties and offering play
> > to all without favour. He has a squirrel pal living near one of his
> > field's bigger trees. He lets out a kind of whimpering howl of
> > delight when he spots her - even though she gives him fleas.
>
> > If we were good at the 'body-language' thing rigs we'd have no
> > advertising and wouldn't fall for the next political clown's lies
> > about WMD in Iraq. I was trained in something called 'micro-
> > expressions' and later cognitive interviewing. Both taught me I was
> > no good at spotting lying! Good liars never give you anything you can
> > check up on in a timescale that matters (before they can run off and
> > such). Kids and some adults claiming abuse sometimes make up
> > elaborate fantasies - in a recent case a woman claimed she had lost a
> > baby as a result of a rape but in fact had never been pregnant (hard
> > evidence tests). In one of my own cases I listened to several kids
> > describe a dungeon in a house on a hill. It was complete fantasy -
> > but the abuse was real and took place in a hotel. In another case I
> > was about to call social services believing the prostitute mother had
> > 'lost' her kids whilst drunk-drugged (house was squalid). I heard the
> > cutlery draw rattle as I put a kettle on the gas to make her a cup of
> > tea. She'd looked harmless and dead-beat until she came at me with
> > the knife. As I called the ambulance for her she admitted she'd
> > drowned her kids in the canal. The case had already been closed by
> > three uniforms as 'NFA' (no further action) and I'd heard one of them
> > say 'he's only staying to get stuck up her' as they left. The
> > disgruntled force duty officer, pulled from her own warm pit, was
> > writing-up discipline forms on me when the shallow water diving team
> > found the kids two hours later. It was inappropriate for me to have
> > exceeded my rank in calling them out and incurring the expenditure.
> > It took 3 months for our rubber heels to drop the charges against me.
> > Eventually they decided I was the ranking detective at the time, but
> > they'd actually realised by then the kids might still have been alive
> > when I called the squad out. Truth was a desk sergeant had. I may be
> > too dumb to do the body language thingy rigs - I'm a social inadequate
> > in many respects, bored by smalltalk and cultural sign. I have good
> > corner of the eye vision and hearing and some strange sense of duty to
> > do something for a couple of waifs gone missing.
>
> > We probably confuse body language with more general aspects of us
> > being social animals. I can't see you abandoning those kids as others
> > did rigs and you'd probably have wielded the kettle as well as me.
> > You might well have continued making the tea as I did. She told me,
> > inaccurately, where the kids were over the brew. She was still
> > lying. Cops had lied to me about searching the house. She had 4 kids
> > not two. The youngest two were upstairs - we saved them. Previous
> > rubbish officers took part in frantic search. I 'forgot' what they
> > had initially told me. I doubt this story quite says why - but I
> > regard language as institutional. I might speak to my sister as I do
> > to Gabby above - spite between friends is not without its love. I
> > even love what spreadsheets can do, but hate most of what they are
> > used for.
>
> > What is the "body language" of the 'rich-a-giving' Allan? Why do I,
> > once believing Blair was a philanthropist, now see him as Bliar, the
> > steaming turd reborn after absolution and his cosy chat with god? I
> > do literally see him differently - yet I hope this is on the facts
> > beyond this manipulation of the matrix. The matrix is now lying to us
> > as surely as Soviet performance managers or the sociopaths who have
> > learned they do not need to hide their victims in cellars. Thieving
> > is only part of the spreadsheet Gabs - noble in the anti-IRA-romantic
> > 'Ordinary Decent Criminal' and Robin Hood - dire in funnelling 90% to
> > 1% and discounting most of the work still mostly done by women to 0%
> > of GDP along with most of the rest that matters. The world of
> > banksters and economists is much worse than the one in which I used to
> > meet prostitutes and people I could bang-up for criminal behaviour.
> > The central theory is probably control fraud - Bill Black is a good
> > start but here we use shorthand in facework lest we breach politesse
> > in the accusation of knowing too much (wasn't Norbert Elias German?).
>
> > In a way I agree with rigs - we need something as simple as the sign
> > of two people about to share the same bed - an economics without
> > words, ludicrously abstracted maths and that people can use for their
> > own purposes. This said, I must note I have often ended-up in bed
> > with the wrong partners! Must now do that body language that
> > convinces Maxwell I am his walk-butler. New Year's Eve so I'm off to
> > the rum district and loose women - which these days means bed by 8
> > p.m. in some gratitude such forays in my professional past only arise
> > when my eyes shut and trauma stalks. Max knows when to lick my face
> > and rouse me to the whiskey for a good night's sleep after we have
> > braced the streets once more. The lad himself gets what's left over
> > from tea and sometimes lets the cats have first go. I admire his
> > benevolence and awareness of feline claws!
>
> > A bonne chance mes amis. One can know being small, insignificant and
> > even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine. My amazon
> > voucher is cashed in, books read, computing tablet averted (eyes too
> > poor, fingers too senile), shotgun sold, CO2 pellet gun purchased
> > (taking Allan's advice), grandson on X-box crusade, Sue waiting
> > without protest for new car and Gabby's youthful patience a thing of
> > my past. How many Douglases does one get per voucher my dear? I
> > simply don't know.
>
> > On 31 Dec, 06:31, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually Rigsy the comment of the Generous Rich is an insult though
> > > there are a few and yes I have meet several among the rich they
> > > appear to give massive amounts of money,, in reality they are
> > > hoarders and an uncaring lot.. Look at the number of them living off
> > > the national wage and giving the rest to or helping their fellow man.?
> > > You said the comment I see it differently than you do..
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:10 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Have we been insulted or complimented?
>
> > > > On Dec 28, 3:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> I didn't get any books for Christmas, but Amazon and Douglas gift
> > vouchers.
> > > >> That's great! I'll be able to use them when I need something.
>
> > > >> I like reading here. No author could have come up with such an
> > anarchic
> > > >> plot, ghostly setting and high amount of under-performers and be able
> > to
> > > >> sell it as a product. :)
>
> > > >> I wouldn't be able to sign this thievery is the root of all evil
> > theory.
> > > >> The possessive 'have' causes wanted and unwanted effects, that's
> > right
> > > >> though. Control comes into play. The Golden Calf never to become an
> > > >> ordinary cow or bull.
>
> > > >> Put back perspective in context and try again, I say.
>
> > > >> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 17:34:01 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>
> > > >> > I finally have my own copy of David Graeber's 'Debt: the first 5000
> > > >> > years', Hann and Hart's 'Economic Anthropology' and David Orell's
> > > >> > 'Economyths' - I've been dip[ping in and already know they don't
> > offer
> > > >> > much I don't know or how to frame economics problems so enough of
> > us
> > > >> > could understand them. It's good to know others, like me, think
> > > >> > thievery is the root and that the science alleged to be involved is
> > > >> > counterfeit stuff from the 19th century. Graeber finishes by
> > saying
> > > >> > we should have a debt jubilee and start again (after historical
> > > >> > analysis). I'll get through the books by posting them in the
> > toilet
> > > >> > and bathroom as relief from the day job. My guess is we are really
> > as
> > > >> > stuck in a confrontation with power
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
"One can know being small, insignificant and
even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine."
even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine."
The descriptors fall away, whether or not accurate in judgement, and life still shines brilliantly. Always.
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen
On Monday, December 31, 2012 8:52:14 AM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
-- On Monday, December 31, 2012 8:52:14 AM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
You are right as ever Gabs. Max Stirner lives! We may be that 'union
of egoists' and contradictory collection of 'talentless outsiders'
waiting to wander in from Wimbledon Common to be exploited by
publishers for writing cant about Fichte - a kind of intellectual rags
to riches story sold on the wonder that philosophy ever entered our
burrows in the first place. Given the life of a Womble I doubt I
would leave it. A French cook, mistress and nanny to the children who
call me Uncle Bulgaria and a secure hole in the ground only serve to
remind me I never did meet Madame Cholet and live in the Sartrean
nightmare that reality might well doom me to being quartered with a
German humourist. Even Maxwell is only truly my pal as I let him off
the lead to open country (he needs the lead only because of his
tendency to play with traffic). He's moping about now doing rigs'
body language things to make me guilty enough to take him out in this
morning's rain. A cat is taking solace on my lap after extracting a
stroke fest with her claws gently placed behind my ears. Max is a
wonderful creature, taking on such preening duties and offering play
to all without favour. He has a squirrel pal living near one of his
field's bigger trees. He lets out a kind of whimpering howl of
delight when he spots her - even though she gives him fleas.
If we were good at the 'body-language' thing rigs we'd have no
advertising and wouldn't fall for the next political clown's lies
about WMD in Iraq. I was trained in something called 'micro-
expressions' and later cognitive interviewing. Both taught me I was
no good at spotting lying! Good liars never give you anything you can
check up on in a timescale that matters (before they can run off and
such). Kids and some adults claiming abuse sometimes make up
elaborate fantasies - in a recent case a woman claimed she had lost a
baby as a result of a rape but in fact had never been pregnant (hard
evidence tests). In one of my own cases I listened to several kids
describe a dungeon in a house on a hill. It was complete fantasy -
but the abuse was real and took place in a hotel. In another case I
was about to call social services believing the prostitute mother had
'lost' her kids whilst drunk-drugged (house was squalid). I heard the
cutlery draw rattle as I put a kettle on the gas to make her a cup of
tea. She'd looked harmless and dead-beat until she came at me with
the knife. As I called the ambulance for her she admitted she'd
drowned her kids in the canal. The case had already been closed by
three uniforms as 'NFA' (no further action) and I'd heard one of them
say 'he's only staying to get stuck up her' as they left. The
disgruntled force duty officer, pulled from her own warm pit, was
writing-up discipline forms on me when the shallow water diving team
found the kids two hours later. It was inappropriate for me to have
exceeded my rank in calling them out and incurring the expenditure.
It took 3 months for our rubber heels to drop the charges against me.
Eventually they decided I was the ranking detective at the time, but
they'd actually realised by then the kids might still have been alive
when I called the squad out. Truth was a desk sergeant had. I may be
too dumb to do the body language thingy rigs - I'm a social inadequate
in many respects, bored by smalltalk and cultural sign. I have good
corner of the eye vision and hearing and some strange sense of duty to
do something for a couple of waifs gone missing.
We probably confuse body language with more general aspects of us
being social animals. I can't see you abandoning those kids as others
did rigs and you'd probably have wielded the kettle as well as me.
You might well have continued making the tea as I did. She told me,
inaccurately, where the kids were over the brew. She was still
lying. Cops had lied to me about searching the house. She had 4 kids
not two. The youngest two were upstairs - we saved them. Previous
rubbish officers took part in frantic search. I 'forgot' what they
had initially told me. I doubt this story quite says why - but I
regard language as institutional. I might speak to my sister as I do
to Gabby above - spite between friends is not without its love. I
even love what spreadsheets can do, but hate most of what they are
used for.
What is the "body language" of the 'rich-a-giving' Allan? Why do I,
once believing Blair was a philanthropist, now see him as Bliar, the
steaming turd reborn after absolution and his cosy chat with god? I
do literally see him differently - yet I hope this is on the facts
beyond this manipulation of the matrix. The matrix is now lying to us
as surely as Soviet performance managers or the sociopaths who have
learned they do not need to hide their victims in cellars. Thieving
is only part of the spreadsheet Gabs - noble in the anti-IRA-romantic
'Ordinary Decent Criminal' and Robin Hood - dire in funnelling 90% to
1% and discounting most of the work still mostly done by women to 0%
of GDP along with most of the rest that matters. The world of
banksters and economists is much worse than the one in which I used to
meet prostitutes and people I could bang-up for criminal behaviour.
The central theory is probably control fraud - Bill Black is a good
start but here we use shorthand in facework lest we breach politesse
in the accusation of knowing too much (wasn't Norbert Elias German?).
In a way I agree with rigs - we need something as simple as the sign
of two people about to share the same bed - an economics without
words, ludicrously abstracted maths and that people can use for their
own purposes. This said, I must note I have often ended-up in bed
with the wrong partners! Must now do that body language that
convinces Maxwell I am his walk-butler. New Year's Eve so I'm off to
the rum district and loose women - which these days means bed by 8
p.m. in some gratitude such forays in my professional past only arise
when my eyes shut and trauma stalks. Max knows when to lick my face
and rouse me to the whiskey for a good night's sleep after we have
braced the streets once more. The lad himself gets what's left over
from tea and sometimes lets the cats have first go. I admire his
benevolence and awareness of feline claws!
A bonne chance mes amis. One can know being small, insignificant and
even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine. My amazon
voucher is cashed in, books read, computing tablet averted (eyes too
poor, fingers too senile), shotgun sold, CO2 pellet gun purchased
(taking Allan's advice), grandson on X-box crusade, Sue waiting
without protest for new car and Gabby's youthful patience a thing of
my past. How many Douglases does one get per voucher my dear? I
simply don't know.
On 31 Dec, 06:31, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually Rigsy the comment of the Generous Rich is an insult though
> there are a few and yes I have meet several among the rich they
> appear to give massive amounts of money,, in reality they are
> hoarders and an uncaring lot.. Look at the number of them living off
> the national wage and giving the rest to or helping their fellow man.?
> You said the comment I see it differently than you do..
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:10 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Have we been insulted or complimented?
>
> > On Dec 28, 3:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I didn't get any books for Christmas, but Amazon and Douglas gift vouchers.
> >> That's great! I'll be able to use them when I need something.
>
> >> I like reading here. No author could have come up with such an anarchic
> >> plot, ghostly setting and high amount of under-performers and be able to
> >> sell it as a product. :)
>
> >> I wouldn't be able to sign this thievery is the root of all evil theory.
> >> The possessive 'have' causes wanted and unwanted effects, that's right
> >> though. Control comes into play. The Golden Calf never to become an
> >> ordinary cow or bull.
>
> >> Put back perspective in context and try again, I say.
>
> >> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 17:34:01 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>
> >> > I finally have my own copy of David Graeber's 'Debt: the first 5000
> >> > years', Hann and Hart's 'Economic Anthropology' and David Orell's
> >> > 'Economyths' - I've been dip[ping in and already know they don't offer
> >> > much I don't know or how to frame economics problems so enough of us
> >> > could understand them. It's good to know others, like me, think
> >> > thievery is the root and that the science alleged to be involved is
> >> > counterfeit stuff from the 19th century. Graeber finishes by saying
> >> > we should have a debt jubilee and start again (after historical
> >> > analysis). I'll get through the books by posting them in the toilet
> >> > and bathroom as relief from the day job. My guess is we are really as
> >> > stuck in a confrontation with power as Burmese peasants stuck with a
> >> > Chinese copper mine on their land. Graeber, an anarchist, sounds
> >> > rather like Molly or Gabby or Allan in hoping love might usurp self-
> >> > interest. I don't drink that soup for the soul! I rather see such
> >> > condition as dessert after we grind out a materialist solution after
> >> > we realise the rich have been having us on a butty.
>
> >> > On 28 Dec, 12:34, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Interesting, achy, my husband and I are in the same boat. I keep going
> >> > > back to the classics on my shelf and the rare books yet uncovered that I
> >> > > can find for a song at the internet bookseller. Mostly, we surf the web
> >> > > for shreds of what is new in the research and come up short, as this is
> >> > > passed on at a need to know basis and posted on the Internet after the
> >> > > party or at the risk of indiscretion. Reading has been more interesting
> >> > > during other phases of life for me.
>
> >> > > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:08:50 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>
> >> > > > I do something similar to Molly. Reading is largely about trying to
> >> > > > fly with ideas for me, different to the day-to-day. I suspect most
> >> > > > people in here would like anyone who wants to to be able to access
> >> > > > universities. I'd do this by changing what the university is. What
> >> > > > we have actually been doing seems to be madness. We are graduating
> >> > > > half our population without increasing 'working smarter' jobs or even
> >> > > > considering whether this is really possible - the probability is we
> >> > > > are devaluing graduate advantage just as we force kids into large debt
> >> > > > to get the qualifications. Finance, traditionally an unwanted cost
> >> > > > against production and sales, now leeches massive amounts from
> >> > > > production we used to retain as wages and liquid capital amongst our
> >> > > > 50% least well off (this was about 20% of GDP when I left school ans
> >> > > > is down to less than 1%). What I find in reading is consistent
> >> > > > distraction from what really matters. There isn't much difference
> >> > > > between watch mainstream news, whatever entertainment is on offer and
> >> > > > the academic vanity publishing. It feels as though there is nothing
> >> > > > to read or watch.
>
> >> > > > On 27 Dec, 23:19, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > I don't agree on the body language or behavioural cues rigs - all
> >> > the
> >> > > > > tests done show we are about as reliable as the toss of a coin. The
> >> > > > > people who are best at making us think we can read them are
> >> > > > > psychopaths - three times more likely to secure parole from
> >> > 'experts'.
>
> >> > > > > On 27 Dec, 09:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > Yes the rich have more opportunities and exposure to make more
> >> > > > > > wealth.. why would you say that is Rigsy?? Why are not these
> >> > > > > > opportunities and exposure created for the poor? .. they are the
> >> > ones
> >> > > > > > that need it. or could it be part of the perks of worshiping at
> >> > the
> >> > > > > > feet of the golden calf??
> >> > > > > > Allan
>
> >> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 2:49 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > It may be the rich have more opportunities and exposure, Allan.
> >> > > > Human
> >> > > > > > > nature is human nature. Also, celebrity creates another kind of
> >> > > > > > > challenge as the artist types gain fame and fortune- often to
> >> > laugh
> >> > > > at
> >> > > > > > > their own popularity and adulation of the public and critics-
> >> > > > Picasso
> >> > > > > > > comes to mind, for instance- have a savage quote of his around
> >> > here
> >> > > > > > > somewhere.
>
> >> > > > > > > On Dec 25, 8:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> Oddly I think you have a better chance for good ethics among
> >> > the
> >> > > > poor
> >> > > > > > >> over the rich,
> >> > > > > > >> Allan
>
> >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> > I wonder if the researchers took into account that a truly
> >> > > > ethical person
> >> > > > > > >> > would not participate in the kind of rubbish that presents
> >> > > > predictable
> >> > > > > > >> > limited outcomes as fact. There may, indeed, be a
> >> > correlation
> >> > > > between
> >> > > > > > >> > creativity and ethics, but I suspect it is more inclusive and
> >> > > > requires
> >> > > > > > >> > examination without the limits designed to define results. I
> >> > keep
> >> > > > going back
> >> > > > > > >> > to the model of spiral dynamics, one that allows and
> >> > understands
> >> > > > that we all
> >> > > > > > >> > move up and down and between memes during our lives given the
> >> > > > circumstances
> >> > > > > > >> > of our experience. Someone who does not have enough money
> >> > for
> >> > > > food may
> >> > > > > > >> > cheat in this experiment more than someone who has never
> >> > known
> >> > > > financial
> >> > > > > > >> > stress or hunger. Here is a pretty good explanation of the
> >> > > > original Graves
> >> > > > > > >> > material, although I've seen better, its the best I could
> >> > find
> >> > > > online this
> >> > > > > > >> > morning.
> >> > > >http://www.edumar.cl/documentos/SD_version_for_ constellation5.pdf
>
> >> > > > > > >> > On Monday, December 24, 2012 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, archytas
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> A free paper with the ideas is at
> >> > > > > > >> >>http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/11-064.pdf
> >> > > > > > >> >> I was interested because I find professional ethics and
> >> > > > religious
> >> > > > > > >> >> morality collapse under circumstances of self-interest and
> >> > > > become
> >> > > > > > >> >> rationalisation. WE need creative solutions - but there is
> >> > a
> >> > > > dark
> >> > > > > > >> >> side to creativity.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> On 24 Dec, 22:03, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> >> > "The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to
> >> > Everyone
> >> > > > —
> >> > > > > > >> >> > Especially Ourselves" by Dan Ariely asks a seemingly
> >> > simple
> >> > > > question —
> >> > > > > > >> >> > "is dishonesty largely restricted to a few bad apples, or
> >> > is
> >> > > > it a more
> >> > > > > > >> >> > widespread problem?" — and goes on to reveal the
> >> > surprising,
> >> > > > > > >> >> > illuminating, often unsettling truths that underpin the
> >> > > > uncomfortable
> >> > > > > > >> >> > answer. Like cruelty, dishonesty turns out to be a
> >> > remarkably
> >> > > > > > >> >> > prevalent phenomenon better explained by circumstances and
> >> > > > cognitive
> >> > > > > > >> >> > processes than by concepts like character.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> > Work like this is challenging traditional economics - the
> >> > > > genre is
> >> > > > > > >> >> > 'behavioural economics'. My own take on this book and a
> >> > lot
> >> > > > of work
> >> > > > > > >> >> > from brain science and history is that we are at a tipping
> >> > > > point in
> >> > > > > > >> >> > respect of the possibility of a human science. I'd like
> >> > to
> >> > > > see a
> >> > > > > > >> >> > broader literature take up this challenge beyond current
> >> > > > drivel on
> >> > > > > > >> >> > black and white hats.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> > So what are you guys reading?
>
> >> > > > > > >> > --
>
> >> > > > > > >> --
> >> > > > > > >> (
> >> > > > > > >> )
> >> > > > > > >> |_D Allan
>
> >> > > > > > >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> > > > > > >> Of course I talk to myself,
> >> > > > > > >> Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > > > --
>
> >> > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > (
> >> > > > > > )
> >> > > > > > |_D Allan
>
> >> > > > > > Life is for moral,
>
> ...
>
> read more »
question
If a shit is the call of nature..
does that make a fart a missed call?
Allan
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
If a shit is the call of nature..
does that make a fart a missed call?
Allan
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
you to poli stay out of trouble
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 4:20 PM, pol.science kid <r.freebird@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone..Have a great year ahead.. and hopefully have an exciting new
> years eve.. ;p
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:02 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> It's a heavy brain load running two companies, and ME has always been
>> where I put serious thought into serious conversations. I haven't felt I've
>> had the wherewithal to really participate, despite reading a fair number of
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> you too Chris long time no see.. Have a great new year.
>>> Allan
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 12:20 AM, Chris Jenkins
>>> <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hello, ME'ers. I hope you're all having a wonderful holiday.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I would like to wish every one a magical and joyous season
>>> >> Allan
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> (
>>> >> )
>>> >> |_D Allan
>>> >>
>>> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>> >>
>>> >> Of course I talk to myself,
>>> >> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> (
>>> )
>>> |_D Allan
>>>
>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>>
>>> Of course I talk to myself,
>>> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> EverComing
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 4:20 PM, pol.science kid <r.freebird@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone..Have a great year ahead.. and hopefully have an exciting new
> years eve.. ;p
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:02 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> It's a heavy brain load running two companies, and ME has always been
>> where I put serious thought into serious conversations. I haven't felt I've
>> had the wherewithal to really participate, despite reading a fair number of
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> you too Chris long time no see.. Have a great new year.
>>> Allan
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 12:20 AM, Chris Jenkins
>>> <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hello, ME'ers. I hope you're all having a wonderful holiday.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I would like to wish every one a magical and joyous season
>>> >> Allan
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> (
>>> >> )
>>> >> |_D Allan
>>> >>
>>> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>> >>
>>> >> Of course I talk to myself,
>>> >> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> (
>>> )
>>> |_D Allan
>>>
>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>>
>>> Of course I talk to myself,
>>> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> EverComing
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
Hey everyone..Have a great year ahead.. and hopefully have an exciting new years eve.. ;p
--
EverComing --
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:02 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:
It's a heavy brain load running two companies, and ME has always been where I put serious thought into serious conversations. I haven't felt I've had the wherewithal to really participate, despite reading a fair number of threads.--On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:you too Chris long time no see.. Have a great new year.
Allan
> --
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 12:20 AM, Chris Jenkins
<digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, ME'ers. I hope you're all having a wonderful holiday.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would like to wish every one a magical and joyous season
>> Allan
>>
>> --
>> (
>> )
>> |_D Allan
>>
>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>> Of course I talk to myself,
>> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
--
EverComing --
You are right as ever Gabs. Max Stirner lives! We may be that 'union
of egoists' and contradictory collection of 'talentless outsiders'
waiting to wander in from Wimbledon Common to be exploited by
publishers for writing cant about Fichte - a kind of intellectual rags
to riches story sold on the wonder that philosophy ever entered our
burrows in the first place. Given the life of a Womble I doubt I
would leave it. A French cook, mistress and nanny to the children who
call me Uncle Bulgaria and a secure hole in the ground only serve to
remind me I never did meet Madame Cholet and live in the Sartrean
nightmare that reality might well doom me to being quartered with a
German humourist. Even Maxwell is only truly my pal as I let him off
the lead to open country (he needs the lead only because of his
tendency to play with traffic). He's moping about now doing rigs'
body language things to make me guilty enough to take him out in this
morning's rain. A cat is taking solace on my lap after extracting a
stroke fest with her claws gently placed behind my ears. Max is a
wonderful creature, taking on such preening duties and offering play
to all without favour. He has a squirrel pal living near one of his
field's bigger trees. He lets out a kind of whimpering howl of
delight when he spots her - even though she gives him fleas.
If we were good at the 'body-language' thing rigs we'd have no
advertising and wouldn't fall for the next political clown's lies
about WMD in Iraq. I was trained in something called 'micro-
expressions' and later cognitive interviewing. Both taught me I was
no good at spotting lying! Good liars never give you anything you can
check up on in a timescale that matters (before they can run off and
such). Kids and some adults claiming abuse sometimes make up
elaborate fantasies - in a recent case a woman claimed she had lost a
baby as a result of a rape but in fact had never been pregnant (hard
evidence tests). In one of my own cases I listened to several kids
describe a dungeon in a house on a hill. It was complete fantasy -
but the abuse was real and took place in a hotel. In another case I
was about to call social services believing the prostitute mother had
'lost' her kids whilst drunk-drugged (house was squalid). I heard the
cutlery draw rattle as I put a kettle on the gas to make her a cup of
tea. She'd looked harmless and dead-beat until she came at me with
the knife. As I called the ambulance for her she admitted she'd
drowned her kids in the canal. The case had already been closed by
three uniforms as 'NFA' (no further action) and I'd heard one of them
say 'he's only staying to get stuck up her' as they left. The
disgruntled force duty officer, pulled from her own warm pit, was
writing-up discipline forms on me when the shallow water diving team
found the kids two hours later. It was inappropriate for me to have
exceeded my rank in calling them out and incurring the expenditure.
It took 3 months for our rubber heels to drop the charges against me.
Eventually they decided I was the ranking detective at the time, but
they'd actually realised by then the kids might still have been alive
when I called the squad out. Truth was a desk sergeant had. I may be
too dumb to do the body language thingy rigs - I'm a social inadequate
in many respects, bored by smalltalk and cultural sign. I have good
corner of the eye vision and hearing and some strange sense of duty to
do something for a couple of waifs gone missing.
We probably confuse body language with more general aspects of us
being social animals. I can't see you abandoning those kids as others
did rigs and you'd probably have wielded the kettle as well as me.
You might well have continued making the tea as I did. She told me,
inaccurately, where the kids were over the brew. She was still
lying. Cops had lied to me about searching the house. She had 4 kids
not two. The youngest two were upstairs - we saved them. Previous
rubbish officers took part in frantic search. I 'forgot' what they
had initially told me. I doubt this story quite says why - but I
regard language as institutional. I might speak to my sister as I do
to Gabby above - spite between friends is not without its love. I
even love what spreadsheets can do, but hate most of what they are
used for.
What is the "body language" of the 'rich-a-giving' Allan? Why do I,
once believing Blair was a philanthropist, now see him as Bliar, the
steaming turd reborn after absolution and his cosy chat with god? I
do literally see him differently - yet I hope this is on the facts
beyond this manipulation of the matrix. The matrix is now lying to us
as surely as Soviet performance managers or the sociopaths who have
learned they do not need to hide their victims in cellars. Thieving
is only part of the spreadsheet Gabs - noble in the anti-IRA-romantic
'Ordinary Decent Criminal' and Robin Hood - dire in funnelling 90% to
1% and discounting most of the work still mostly done by women to 0%
of GDP along with most of the rest that matters. The world of
banksters and economists is much worse than the one in which I used to
meet prostitutes and people I could bang-up for criminal behaviour.
The central theory is probably control fraud - Bill Black is a good
start but here we use shorthand in facework lest we breach politesse
in the accusation of knowing too much (wasn't Norbert Elias German?).
In a way I agree with rigs - we need something as simple as the sign
of two people about to share the same bed - an economics without
words, ludicrously abstracted maths and that people can use for their
own purposes. This said, I must note I have often ended-up in bed
with the wrong partners! Must now do that body language that
convinces Maxwell I am his walk-butler. New Year's Eve so I'm off to
the rum district and loose women - which these days means bed by 8
p.m. in some gratitude such forays in my professional past only arise
when my eyes shut and trauma stalks. Max knows when to lick my face
and rouse me to the whiskey for a good night's sleep after we have
braced the streets once more. The lad himself gets what's left over
from tea and sometimes lets the cats have first go. I admire his
benevolence and awareness of feline claws!
A bonne chance mes amis. One can know being small, insignificant and
even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine. My amazon
voucher is cashed in, books read, computing tablet averted (eyes too
poor, fingers too senile), shotgun sold, CO2 pellet gun purchased
(taking Allan's advice), grandson on X-box crusade, Sue waiting
without protest for new car and Gabby's youthful patience a thing of
my past. How many Douglases does one get per voucher my dear? I
simply don't know.
On 31 Dec, 06:31, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually Rigsy the comment of the Generous Rich is an insult though
> there are a few and yes I have meet several among the rich they
> appear to give massive amounts of money,, in reality they are
> hoarders and an uncaring lot.. Look at the number of them living off
> the national wage and giving the rest to or helping their fellow man.?
> You said the comment I see it differently than you do..
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:10 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Have we been insulted or complimented?
>
> > On Dec 28, 3:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I didn't get any books for Christmas, but Amazon and Douglas gift vouchers.
> >> That's great! I'll be able to use them when I need something.
>
> >> I like reading here. No author could have come up with such an anarchic
> >> plot, ghostly setting and high amount of under-performers and be able to
> >> sell it as a product. :)
>
> >> I wouldn't be able to sign this thievery is the root of all evil theory.
> >> The possessive 'have' causes wanted and unwanted effects, that's right
> >> though. Control comes into play. The Golden Calf never to become an
> >> ordinary cow or bull.
>
> >> Put back perspective in context and try again, I say.
>
> >> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 17:34:01 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>
> >> > I finally have my own copy of David Graeber's 'Debt: the first 5000
> >> > years', Hann and Hart's 'Economic Anthropology' and David Orell's
> >> > 'Economyths' - I've been dip[ping in and already know they don't offer
> >> > much I don't know or how to frame economics problems so enough of us
> >> > could understand them. It's good to know others, like me, think
> >> > thievery is the root and that the science alleged to be involved is
> >> > counterfeit stuff from the 19th century. Graeber finishes by saying
> >> > we should have a debt jubilee and start again (after historical
> >> > analysis). I'll get through the books by posting them in the toilet
> >> > and bathroom as relief from the day job. My guess is we are really as
> >> > stuck in a confrontation with power as Burmese peasants stuck with a
> >> > Chinese copper mine on their land. Graeber, an anarchist, sounds
> >> > rather like Molly or Gabby or Allan in hoping love might usurp self-
> >> > interest. I don't drink that soup for the soul! I rather see such
> >> > condition as dessert after we grind out a materialist solution after
> >> > we realise the rich have been having us on a butty.
>
> >> > On 28 Dec, 12:34, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Interesting, achy, my husband and I are in the same boat. I keep going
> >> > > back to the classics on my shelf and the rare books yet uncovered that I
> >> > > can find for a song at the internet bookseller. Mostly, we surf the web
> >> > > for shreds of what is new in the research and come up short, as this is
> >> > > passed on at a need to know basis and posted on the Internet after the
> >> > > party or at the risk of indiscretion. Reading has been more interesting
> >> > > during other phases of life for me.
>
> >> > > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:08:50 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>
> >> > > > I do something similar to Molly. Reading is largely about trying to
> >> > > > fly with ideas for me, different to the day-to-day. I suspect most
> >> > > > people in here would like anyone who wants to to be able to access
> >> > > > universities. I'd do this by changing what the university is. What
> >> > > > we have actually been doing seems to be madness. We are graduating
> >> > > > half our population without increasing 'working smarter' jobs or even
> >> > > > considering whether this is really possible - the probability is we
> >> > > > are devaluing graduate advantage just as we force kids into large debt
> >> > > > to get the qualifications. Finance, traditionally an unwanted cost
> >> > > > against production and sales, now leeches massive amounts from
> >> > > > production we used to retain as wages and liquid capital amongst our
> >> > > > 50% least well off (this was about 20% of GDP when I left school ans
> >> > > > is down to less than 1%). What I find in reading is consistent
> >> > > > distraction from what really matters. There isn't much difference
> >> > > > between watch mainstream news, whatever entertainment is on offer and
> >> > > > the academic vanity publishing. It feels as though there is nothing
> >> > > > to read or watch.
>
> >> > > > On 27 Dec, 23:19, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > I don't agree on the body language or behavioural cues rigs - all
> >> > the
> >> > > > > tests done show we are about as reliable as the toss of a coin. The
> >> > > > > people who are best at making us think we can read them are
> >> > > > > psychopaths - three times more likely to secure parole from
> >> > 'experts'.
>
> >> > > > > On 27 Dec, 09:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > Yes the rich have more opportunities and exposure to make more
> >> > > > > > wealth.. why would you say that is Rigsy?? Why are not these
> >> > > > > > opportunities and exposure created for the poor? .. they are the
> >> > ones
> >> > > > > > that need it. or could it be part of the perks of worshiping at
> >> > the
> >> > > > > > feet of the golden calf??
> >> > > > > > Allan
>
> >> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 2:49 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > It may be the rich have more opportunities and exposure, Allan.
> >> > > > Human
> >> > > > > > > nature is human nature. Also, celebrity creates another kind of
> >> > > > > > > challenge as the artist types gain fame and fortune- often to
> >> > laugh
> >> > > > at
> >> > > > > > > their own popularity and adulation of the public and critics-
> >> > > > Picasso
> >> > > > > > > comes to mind, for instance- have a savage quote of his around
> >> > here
> >> > > > > > > somewhere.
>
> >> > > > > > > On Dec 25, 8:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> Oddly I think you have a better chance for good ethics among
> >> > the
> >> > > > poor
> >> > > > > > >> over the rich,
> >> > > > > > >> Allan
>
> >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> > I wonder if the researchers took into account that a truly
> >> > > > ethical person
> >> > > > > > >> > would not participate in the kind of rubbish that presents
> >> > > > predictable
> >> > > > > > >> > limited outcomes as fact. There may, indeed, be a
> >> > correlation
> >> > > > between
> >> > > > > > >> > creativity and ethics, but I suspect it is more inclusive and
> >> > > > requires
> >> > > > > > >> > examination without the limits designed to define results. I
> >> > keep
> >> > > > going back
> >> > > > > > >> > to the model of spiral dynamics, one that allows and
> >> > understands
> >> > > > that we all
> >> > > > > > >> > move up and down and between memes during our lives given the
> >> > > > circumstances
> >> > > > > > >> > of our experience. Someone who does not have enough money
> >> > for
> >> > > > food may
> >> > > > > > >> > cheat in this experiment more than someone who has never
> >> > known
> >> > > > financial
> >> > > > > > >> > stress or hunger. Here is a pretty good explanation of the
> >> > > > original Graves
> >> > > > > > >> > material, although I've seen better, its the best I could
> >> > find
> >> > > > online this
> >> > > > > > >> > morning.
> >> > > >http://www.edumar.cl/documentos/SD_version_for_constellation5.pdf
>
> >> > > > > > >> > On Monday, December 24, 2012 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, archytas
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> A free paper with the ideas is at
> >> > > > > > >> >>http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/11-064.pdf
> >> > > > > > >> >> I was interested because I find professional ethics and
> >> > > > religious
> >> > > > > > >> >> morality collapse under circumstances of self-interest and
> >> > > > become
> >> > > > > > >> >> rationalisation. WE need creative solutions - but there is
> >> > a
> >> > > > dark
> >> > > > > > >> >> side to creativity.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> On 24 Dec, 22:03, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> >> > "The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to
> >> > Everyone
> >> > > > —
> >> > > > > > >> >> > Especially Ourselves" by Dan Ariely asks a seemingly
> >> > simple
> >> > > > question —
> >> > > > > > >> >> > "is dishonesty largely restricted to a few bad apples, or
> >> > is
> >> > > > it a more
> >> > > > > > >> >> > widespread problem?" — and goes on to reveal the
> >> > surprising,
> >> > > > > > >> >> > illuminating, often unsettling truths that underpin the
> >> > > > uncomfortable
> >> > > > > > >> >> > answer. Like cruelty, dishonesty turns out to be a
> >> > remarkably
> >> > > > > > >> >> > prevalent phenomenon better explained by circumstances and
> >> > > > cognitive
> >> > > > > > >> >> > processes than by concepts like character.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> > Work like this is challenging traditional economics - the
> >> > > > genre is
> >> > > > > > >> >> > 'behavioural economics'. My own take on this book and a
> >> > lot
> >> > > > of work
> >> > > > > > >> >> > from brain science and history is that we are at a tipping
> >> > > > point in
> >> > > > > > >> >> > respect of the possibility of a human science. I'd like
> >> > to
> >> > > > see a
> >> > > > > > >> >> > broader literature take up this challenge beyond current
> >> > > > drivel on
> >> > > > > > >> >> > black and white hats.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> > So what are you guys reading?
>
> >> > > > > > >> > --
>
> >> > > > > > >> --
> >> > > > > > >> (
> >> > > > > > >> )
> >> > > > > > >> |_D Allan
>
> >> > > > > > >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> > > > > > >> Of course I talk to myself,
> >> > > > > > >> Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > > > --
>
> >> > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > (
> >> > > > > > )
> >> > > > > > |_D Allan
>
> >> > > > > > Life is for moral,
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
of egoists' and contradictory collection of 'talentless outsiders'
waiting to wander in from Wimbledon Common to be exploited by
publishers for writing cant about Fichte - a kind of intellectual rags
to riches story sold on the wonder that philosophy ever entered our
burrows in the first place. Given the life of a Womble I doubt I
would leave it. A French cook, mistress and nanny to the children who
call me Uncle Bulgaria and a secure hole in the ground only serve to
remind me I never did meet Madame Cholet and live in the Sartrean
nightmare that reality might well doom me to being quartered with a
German humourist. Even Maxwell is only truly my pal as I let him off
the lead to open country (he needs the lead only because of his
tendency to play with traffic). He's moping about now doing rigs'
body language things to make me guilty enough to take him out in this
morning's rain. A cat is taking solace on my lap after extracting a
stroke fest with her claws gently placed behind my ears. Max is a
wonderful creature, taking on such preening duties and offering play
to all without favour. He has a squirrel pal living near one of his
field's bigger trees. He lets out a kind of whimpering howl of
delight when he spots her - even though she gives him fleas.
If we were good at the 'body-language' thing rigs we'd have no
advertising and wouldn't fall for the next political clown's lies
about WMD in Iraq. I was trained in something called 'micro-
expressions' and later cognitive interviewing. Both taught me I was
no good at spotting lying! Good liars never give you anything you can
check up on in a timescale that matters (before they can run off and
such). Kids and some adults claiming abuse sometimes make up
elaborate fantasies - in a recent case a woman claimed she had lost a
baby as a result of a rape but in fact had never been pregnant (hard
evidence tests). In one of my own cases I listened to several kids
describe a dungeon in a house on a hill. It was complete fantasy -
but the abuse was real and took place in a hotel. In another case I
was about to call social services believing the prostitute mother had
'lost' her kids whilst drunk-drugged (house was squalid). I heard the
cutlery draw rattle as I put a kettle on the gas to make her a cup of
tea. She'd looked harmless and dead-beat until she came at me with
the knife. As I called the ambulance for her she admitted she'd
drowned her kids in the canal. The case had already been closed by
three uniforms as 'NFA' (no further action) and I'd heard one of them
say 'he's only staying to get stuck up her' as they left. The
disgruntled force duty officer, pulled from her own warm pit, was
writing-up discipline forms on me when the shallow water diving team
found the kids two hours later. It was inappropriate for me to have
exceeded my rank in calling them out and incurring the expenditure.
It took 3 months for our rubber heels to drop the charges against me.
Eventually they decided I was the ranking detective at the time, but
they'd actually realised by then the kids might still have been alive
when I called the squad out. Truth was a desk sergeant had. I may be
too dumb to do the body language thingy rigs - I'm a social inadequate
in many respects, bored by smalltalk and cultural sign. I have good
corner of the eye vision and hearing and some strange sense of duty to
do something for a couple of waifs gone missing.
We probably confuse body language with more general aspects of us
being social animals. I can't see you abandoning those kids as others
did rigs and you'd probably have wielded the kettle as well as me.
You might well have continued making the tea as I did. She told me,
inaccurately, where the kids were over the brew. She was still
lying. Cops had lied to me about searching the house. She had 4 kids
not two. The youngest two were upstairs - we saved them. Previous
rubbish officers took part in frantic search. I 'forgot' what they
had initially told me. I doubt this story quite says why - but I
regard language as institutional. I might speak to my sister as I do
to Gabby above - spite between friends is not without its love. I
even love what spreadsheets can do, but hate most of what they are
used for.
What is the "body language" of the 'rich-a-giving' Allan? Why do I,
once believing Blair was a philanthropist, now see him as Bliar, the
steaming turd reborn after absolution and his cosy chat with god? I
do literally see him differently - yet I hope this is on the facts
beyond this manipulation of the matrix. The matrix is now lying to us
as surely as Soviet performance managers or the sociopaths who have
learned they do not need to hide their victims in cellars. Thieving
is only part of the spreadsheet Gabs - noble in the anti-IRA-romantic
'Ordinary Decent Criminal' and Robin Hood - dire in funnelling 90% to
1% and discounting most of the work still mostly done by women to 0%
of GDP along with most of the rest that matters. The world of
banksters and economists is much worse than the one in which I used to
meet prostitutes and people I could bang-up for criminal behaviour.
The central theory is probably control fraud - Bill Black is a good
start but here we use shorthand in facework lest we breach politesse
in the accusation of knowing too much (wasn't Norbert Elias German?).
In a way I agree with rigs - we need something as simple as the sign
of two people about to share the same bed - an economics without
words, ludicrously abstracted maths and that people can use for their
own purposes. This said, I must note I have often ended-up in bed
with the wrong partners! Must now do that body language that
convinces Maxwell I am his walk-butler. New Year's Eve so I'm off to
the rum district and loose women - which these days means bed by 8
p.m. in some gratitude such forays in my professional past only arise
when my eyes shut and trauma stalks. Max knows when to lick my face
and rouse me to the whiskey for a good night's sleep after we have
braced the streets once more. The lad himself gets what's left over
from tea and sometimes lets the cats have first go. I admire his
benevolence and awareness of feline claws!
A bonne chance mes amis. One can know being small, insignificant and
even inept was not failure in last of the summer wine. My amazon
voucher is cashed in, books read, computing tablet averted (eyes too
poor, fingers too senile), shotgun sold, CO2 pellet gun purchased
(taking Allan's advice), grandson on X-box crusade, Sue waiting
without protest for new car and Gabby's youthful patience a thing of
my past. How many Douglases does one get per voucher my dear? I
simply don't know.
On 31 Dec, 06:31, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually Rigsy the comment of the Generous Rich is an insult though
> there are a few and yes I have meet several among the rich they
> appear to give massive amounts of money,, in reality they are
> hoarders and an uncaring lot.. Look at the number of them living off
> the national wage and giving the rest to or helping their fellow man.?
> You said the comment I see it differently than you do..
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:10 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Have we been insulted or complimented?
>
> > On Dec 28, 3:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I didn't get any books for Christmas, but Amazon and Douglas gift vouchers.
> >> That's great! I'll be able to use them when I need something.
>
> >> I like reading here. No author could have come up with such an anarchic
> >> plot, ghostly setting and high amount of under-performers and be able to
> >> sell it as a product. :)
>
> >> I wouldn't be able to sign this thievery is the root of all evil theory.
> >> The possessive 'have' causes wanted and unwanted effects, that's right
> >> though. Control comes into play. The Golden Calf never to become an
> >> ordinary cow or bull.
>
> >> Put back perspective in context and try again, I say.
>
> >> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 17:34:01 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>
> >> > I finally have my own copy of David Graeber's 'Debt: the first 5000
> >> > years', Hann and Hart's 'Economic Anthropology' and David Orell's
> >> > 'Economyths' - I've been dip[ping in and already know they don't offer
> >> > much I don't know or how to frame economics problems so enough of us
> >> > could understand them. It's good to know others, like me, think
> >> > thievery is the root and that the science alleged to be involved is
> >> > counterfeit stuff from the 19th century. Graeber finishes by saying
> >> > we should have a debt jubilee and start again (after historical
> >> > analysis). I'll get through the books by posting them in the toilet
> >> > and bathroom as relief from the day job. My guess is we are really as
> >> > stuck in a confrontation with power as Burmese peasants stuck with a
> >> > Chinese copper mine on their land. Graeber, an anarchist, sounds
> >> > rather like Molly or Gabby or Allan in hoping love might usurp self-
> >> > interest. I don't drink that soup for the soul! I rather see such
> >> > condition as dessert after we grind out a materialist solution after
> >> > we realise the rich have been having us on a butty.
>
> >> > On 28 Dec, 12:34, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Interesting, achy, my husband and I are in the same boat. I keep going
> >> > > back to the classics on my shelf and the rare books yet uncovered that I
> >> > > can find for a song at the internet bookseller. Mostly, we surf the web
> >> > > for shreds of what is new in the research and come up short, as this is
> >> > > passed on at a need to know basis and posted on the Internet after the
> >> > > party or at the risk of indiscretion. Reading has been more interesting
> >> > > during other phases of life for me.
>
> >> > > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:08:50 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>
> >> > > > I do something similar to Molly. Reading is largely about trying to
> >> > > > fly with ideas for me, different to the day-to-day. I suspect most
> >> > > > people in here would like anyone who wants to to be able to access
> >> > > > universities. I'd do this by changing what the university is. What
> >> > > > we have actually been doing seems to be madness. We are graduating
> >> > > > half our population without increasing 'working smarter' jobs or even
> >> > > > considering whether this is really possible - the probability is we
> >> > > > are devaluing graduate advantage just as we force kids into large debt
> >> > > > to get the qualifications. Finance, traditionally an unwanted cost
> >> > > > against production and sales, now leeches massive amounts from
> >> > > > production we used to retain as wages and liquid capital amongst our
> >> > > > 50% least well off (this was about 20% of GDP when I left school ans
> >> > > > is down to less than 1%). What I find in reading is consistent
> >> > > > distraction from what really matters. There isn't much difference
> >> > > > between watch mainstream news, whatever entertainment is on offer and
> >> > > > the academic vanity publishing. It feels as though there is nothing
> >> > > > to read or watch.
>
> >> > > > On 27 Dec, 23:19, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > I don't agree on the body language or behavioural cues rigs - all
> >> > the
> >> > > > > tests done show we are about as reliable as the toss of a coin. The
> >> > > > > people who are best at making us think we can read them are
> >> > > > > psychopaths - three times more likely to secure parole from
> >> > 'experts'.
>
> >> > > > > On 27 Dec, 09:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > Yes the rich have more opportunities and exposure to make more
> >> > > > > > wealth.. why would you say that is Rigsy?? Why are not these
> >> > > > > > opportunities and exposure created for the poor? .. they are the
> >> > ones
> >> > > > > > that need it. or could it be part of the perks of worshiping at
> >> > the
> >> > > > > > feet of the golden calf??
> >> > > > > > Allan
>
> >> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 2:49 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > It may be the rich have more opportunities and exposure, Allan.
> >> > > > Human
> >> > > > > > > nature is human nature. Also, celebrity creates another kind of
> >> > > > > > > challenge as the artist types gain fame and fortune- often to
> >> > laugh
> >> > > > at
> >> > > > > > > their own popularity and adulation of the public and critics-
> >> > > > Picasso
> >> > > > > > > comes to mind, for instance- have a savage quote of his around
> >> > here
> >> > > > > > > somewhere.
>
> >> > > > > > > On Dec 25, 8:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> Oddly I think you have a better chance for good ethics among
> >> > the
> >> > > > poor
> >> > > > > > >> over the rich,
> >> > > > > > >> Allan
>
> >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> > I wonder if the researchers took into account that a truly
> >> > > > ethical person
> >> > > > > > >> > would not participate in the kind of rubbish that presents
> >> > > > predictable
> >> > > > > > >> > limited outcomes as fact. There may, indeed, be a
> >> > correlation
> >> > > > between
> >> > > > > > >> > creativity and ethics, but I suspect it is more inclusive and
> >> > > > requires
> >> > > > > > >> > examination without the limits designed to define results. I
> >> > keep
> >> > > > going back
> >> > > > > > >> > to the model of spiral dynamics, one that allows and
> >> > understands
> >> > > > that we all
> >> > > > > > >> > move up and down and between memes during our lives given the
> >> > > > circumstances
> >> > > > > > >> > of our experience. Someone who does not have enough money
> >> > for
> >> > > > food may
> >> > > > > > >> > cheat in this experiment more than someone who has never
> >> > known
> >> > > > financial
> >> > > > > > >> > stress or hunger. Here is a pretty good explanation of the
> >> > > > original Graves
> >> > > > > > >> > material, although I've seen better, its the best I could
> >> > find
> >> > > > online this
> >> > > > > > >> > morning.
> >> > > >http://www.edumar.cl/documentos/SD_version_for_constellation5.pdf
>
> >> > > > > > >> > On Monday, December 24, 2012 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, archytas
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> A free paper with the ideas is at
> >> > > > > > >> >>http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/11-064.pdf
> >> > > > > > >> >> I was interested because I find professional ethics and
> >> > > > religious
> >> > > > > > >> >> morality collapse under circumstances of self-interest and
> >> > > > become
> >> > > > > > >> >> rationalisation. WE need creative solutions - but there is
> >> > a
> >> > > > dark
> >> > > > > > >> >> side to creativity.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> On 24 Dec, 22:03, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> >> > "The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to
> >> > Everyone
> >> > > > —
> >> > > > > > >> >> > Especially Ourselves" by Dan Ariely asks a seemingly
> >> > simple
> >> > > > question —
> >> > > > > > >> >> > "is dishonesty largely restricted to a few bad apples, or
> >> > is
> >> > > > it a more
> >> > > > > > >> >> > widespread problem?" — and goes on to reveal the
> >> > surprising,
> >> > > > > > >> >> > illuminating, often unsettling truths that underpin the
> >> > > > uncomfortable
> >> > > > > > >> >> > answer. Like cruelty, dishonesty turns out to be a
> >> > remarkably
> >> > > > > > >> >> > prevalent phenomenon better explained by circumstances and
> >> > > > cognitive
> >> > > > > > >> >> > processes than by concepts like character.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> > Work like this is challenging traditional economics - the
> >> > > > genre is
> >> > > > > > >> >> > 'behavioural economics'. My own take on this book and a
> >> > lot
> >> > > > of work
> >> > > > > > >> >> > from brain science and history is that we are at a tipping
> >> > > > point in
> >> > > > > > >> >> > respect of the possibility of a human science. I'd like
> >> > to
> >> > > > see a
> >> > > > > > >> >> > broader literature take up this challenge beyond current
> >> > > > drivel on
> >> > > > > > >> >> > black and white hats.
>
> >> > > > > > >> >> > So what are you guys reading?
>
> >> > > > > > >> > --
>
> >> > > > > > >> --
> >> > > > > > >> (
> >> > > > > > >> )
> >> > > > > > >> |_D Allan
>
> >> > > > > > >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> > > > > > >> Of course I talk to myself,
> >> > > > > > >> Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > > > --
>
> >> > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > (
> >> > > > > > )
> >> > > > > > |_D Allan
>
> >> > > > > > Life is for moral,
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
I do not agree with rape ... such a violent senseless act I think
it is one coming from conservatism not liberalism.. Justice always
has to be tempered with mercy... and before you you go into a rant
Rigsy Yes Rigsy I was raped in my youth..
Actually I think forcing a rape victim to marry their attacker is even
lower still.. a religious community claiming to follow Allah or God
as commonly known is even lower than that..
What is the generous rich doing to eliminate to eliminate these conditions..
Oh indecently what world spends on war and the military in eight (8)
days would eliminate the hunger the world.. *
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:40 AM, rigs <rigs117@gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem with liberal justice is that the punishment does not fit
> the crime. I'm in favor of capital punishment- in fact, you'd be
> shocked at what I think those six rats in Delhi deserve- how about the
> olde English drawn and quartered? Many criminals look on jail time as
> free room and board and it is a very profitable enterprise. Happily
> some of these murderers have the decency to kill themselves often
> enough. What about the victims? And what about our youth that are
> getting killed or maimed in the pest holes of the world???
>
> On Dec 28, 10:24 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There's something amiss with talking up gun control and yet
>> subsidising manufacture. But this is typical of the area of the
>> debate. The same people who sing from the free trade hymn sheet pay
>> the subsidies. Of course, putting a cop in every school (which is a
>> minimum of two with rotation) is an expense on every business. I
>> don't know what the answers are. Over the years I've found the same
>> stilted factionalism from issues like this to foreign policy or aid to
>> third world situations. When argument doesn't work I favour looking
>> at practical examples (Australia in this case). Almost needless to
>> say opinion is divided, though 85% of Aussies now support the new laws
>> and they haven't had a mass killing spree since the reforms (1996).
>> This suggests it could be worth a try, but frankly I don't have the
>> facts. Others say neither Australia or the UK are any safer as a
>> result of our legislation. Some even have it Newtown is a hoax
>> conspiracy to disarm Americans to ease a police state into being.
>>
>> We lack informed analysis generally. In some areas, like television
>> economics and university opportunities for our kids, I know enough to
>> know we are being lied to. In others I'm just left wondering why
>> expert opinion just seems lacking. I haven't even seen a sensible
>> presentation of global warming issues. In place of facts we get
>> factional twits rationalising everything to daft ideologies as though
>> this is balanced reporting.
>>
>> On 28 Dec, 20:29, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I actually do understand Molly,,, it is being caught between a rock
>> > and a hard spot,, due to the large amount of wackos out there with
>> > excessive amounts of weapons there is probably little choice left..
>> > with all the fear mongering that is showing up on television .. I
>> > am a us citizen living abroad.. and they are scaring the hell out of
>> > me..
>>
>> > that is probably the greatest reason for taxation of each fire arm
>> > annually it will allow some actual and realistic control and locate
>> > some of the more sick gun maniacs
>> > Allan
>>
>> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > I much prefer the answer of the institution having armed security on
>> > > staff (we will all pay with increased costs at some point) then
>> > > allowing private citizens to carry weapons into the facilities. There
>> > > are places that need to be zones that do not apply to right to carry
>> > > laws, schools, hospitals, stadiums etc. I imagine that the percentage
>> > > of US schools having armed security will go up next year from the
>> > > current 30% in response. The problem of wacko access to guns is the
>> > > sensitive area, where laws restricting folks with a history of mental
>> > > illness might prevent those who need it from getting treatment (or
>> > > treatment for children) because they are afraid of government
>> > > scrutiny.
>>
>> > > On Dec 28, 12:10 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> I know defense contracting is very big manufacturing and entire
>> > >> regions depend on it ..Then you come up against minor things that the
>> > >> christian foundation is built on... there is one law dating back to
>> > >> ancient times simply put Is "Thou shall not commit murder." Just a
>> > >> small problem spiritually ... how can you justify the 200,000 people
>> > >> murdered by american weapons and bombs dropped recently in Iraq.. were
>> > >> american made..
>>
>> > >> The problem is not in the weapons it lies in balance .. fortunately
>> > >> each soul is responsible only for its own actions and decisions.. I
>> > >> have trouble justifying any war or the intentional taking of another
>> > >> life much less thousands of them..
>>
>> > >> I see NRA wants to put one armed policeman in each school is the NRA
>> > >> paying for this solution... and I can predict it will not work simply
>> > >> because it has not worked in the passed .. their next solution will
>> > >> be prison camps not seats of learning.
>>
>> > >> Sorry somethings just piss me off..
>> > >> Allan
>>
>> > >> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> > Currently in the US there is a much needed resurgence in manufacturing that
>> > >> > all states are subsidizing to get their jobs numbers up. this is no
>> > >> > different than any other type of manufacturing subsidy, I suspect, although
>> > >> > the use of the product is a sensitive issue. Here in Michigan, defense
>> > >> > manufacturing is one of the largest sectors, providing a good portion of the
>> > >> > jobs in the southeastern area. Many would argue that with the world economy
>> > >> > teetering, conditions to manufacturing incentives would be problematic and
>> > >> > stifle job growth. State tax breaks for movie production companies has come
>> > >> > under scrutiny lately, as they were extended to boost local economies when
>> > >> > production houses were build and the movies were shot locally.
>>
>> > >> > Can't say that I disagree with the gun maker tax credit opinion above, but
>> > >> > don't you think they would just move their manufacturing to say - China?
>>
>> > >> > It is a complicated issue, that's for sure. I marvel at our ability to
>> > >> > become distracted with ancillary issues. Are manufacturing tax credits
>> > >> > really the reason wackos wipe out children?
>>
>> > >> > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> Gun production is state funded. Smith & Wesson, one of the largest
>> > >> >> gun makers in the country, is headquartered in Springfield, MA.
>> > >> >> According to the company's 2012 annual investment report to the SEC
>> > >> >> (10-k), Smith & Wesson received a large multi-million dollar tax
>> > >> >> credit from the state that started in 2010 and will continue until
>> > >> >> 2017. This tax credit, of $6.0 million, brought a maximum of 225 jobs
>> > >> >> to the state, or roughly twenty seven thousand dollars of taxpayer
>> > >> >> money per job, and was awarded by an obscure committee called "the
>> > >> >> Massachusetts Economic Assistance Coordinating Council." That amount
>> > >> >> works out to a little less than $1 per person in Massachusetts, money
>> > >> >> that goes straight to Smith & Wesson's bottom line. Most Massachusetts
>> > >> >> residents don't know their legislators and Governor have donated a
>> > >> >> dollar in their name to Smith & Wesson through job creation tax
>> > >> >> credits. Regardless of their views on gun control, I'm guessing
>> > >> >> Massachusetts taxpayers probably don't favor subsidization of the
>> > >> >> industry at such a rich rate.
>>
>> > >> >> At the same time as Smith & Wesson receives such bounty from the
>> > >> >> state, the gunmaker has given over $1 million to the National Rifle
>> > >> >> Association (NRA), the biggest lobbying group for guns. This means
>> > >> >> that the state of Massachusetts, while considering further regulations
>> > >> >> on gun purchases, is at the same time indirectly funding the gun
>> > >> >> lobby. To actually reduce the number of guns on the streets, Linsky,
>> > >> >> and many of our state and Federal officials, could start by ending the
>> > >> >> subsidization of gun makers through tax credits and security funds.
>> > >> >> New Hampshire lost the jobs 'created' in MA.
>>
>> > >> >> On 25 Dec, 22:31, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> > I haven't got a figure on the externalities of gun ownership - but car
>> > >> >> > ownership was recently estimated to cost each individual in the UK
>> > >> >> > £850 a year - £48 billion. About £38 billion is generated in taxes.
>> > >> >> > The underlying issue may well be that the way we let cost drive
>> > >> >> > efficiency generally is probably wrong now and we need a better
>> > >> >> > resource utilisation model. A big question is whether we trust our
>> > >> >> > police and other authorities to keep us safe. Here, people who have
>> > >> >> > not needed dealings with the authorities in such circumstances feel
>> > >> >> > content - those who have had dealings are generally worried they don't
>> > >> >> > do a good job. Holding guns may give us a false sense of security in
>> > >> >> > terms of thinking we can look after ourselves when the authorities
>> > >> >> > can't. We may not really understand what the threat is.
>>
>> > >> >> > I don't know what the full debate on gun ownership is. I can think of
>> > >> >> > an economic analogy - there is a big claim at the moment that we are
>> > >> >> > bankrupting our children through government debt. This isn't true,
>> > >> >> > though one can make the argument sound convincing by leaving most of
>> > >> >> > what matters out of it. We are stuck in something similar on gun
>> > >> >> > control.
>>
>> > >> >> > At the heart of these problems is reliable threat identification and
>> > >> >> > the ability to deal with it with appropriate resources. We might
>> > >> >> > start by looking at what we know about sociopaths - the reality is
>> > >> >> > almost completely at odds with reporting. My guess this is only the
>> > >> >> > first thing on a list of 20 plus. The next might be why so many of us
>> > >> >> > are content with 'attitude' rather than the facts that might bring
>> > >> >> > resolution.
>>
>> > >> >> > On 25 Dec, 11:58, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> > > It is possible that everyone here is right, and we don't have all the
>> > >> >> > > details of the problem to examine. I saw an article that listed all
>> > >> >> > > of the
>> > >> >> > > spontaneous mass murderers in the last decade including school
>> > >> >> > > massacres.
>> > >> >> > > The list consisted of the place of event, name of shooter, and
>> > >> >> > > medication
>> > >> >> > > (for behavior modification) he was on at the time.
>>
>> > >> >> > > The US medical model, especially for mental health, is still in the
>> > >> >> > > dark
>> > >> >> > > ages. We no longer blood or electro-shock let for every condition,
>> > >> >> > > but we
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
it is one coming from conservatism not liberalism.. Justice always
has to be tempered with mercy... and before you you go into a rant
Rigsy Yes Rigsy I was raped in my youth..
Actually I think forcing a rape victim to marry their attacker is even
lower still.. a religious community claiming to follow Allah or God
as commonly known is even lower than that..
What is the generous rich doing to eliminate to eliminate these conditions..
Oh indecently what world spends on war and the military in eight (8)
days would eliminate the hunger the world.. *
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:40 AM, rigs <rigs117@gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem with liberal justice is that the punishment does not fit
> the crime. I'm in favor of capital punishment- in fact, you'd be
> shocked at what I think those six rats in Delhi deserve- how about the
> olde English drawn and quartered? Many criminals look on jail time as
> free room and board and it is a very profitable enterprise. Happily
> some of these murderers have the decency to kill themselves often
> enough. What about the victims? And what about our youth that are
> getting killed or maimed in the pest holes of the world???
>
> On Dec 28, 10:24 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There's something amiss with talking up gun control and yet
>> subsidising manufacture. But this is typical of the area of the
>> debate. The same people who sing from the free trade hymn sheet pay
>> the subsidies. Of course, putting a cop in every school (which is a
>> minimum of two with rotation) is an expense on every business. I
>> don't know what the answers are. Over the years I've found the same
>> stilted factionalism from issues like this to foreign policy or aid to
>> third world situations. When argument doesn't work I favour looking
>> at practical examples (Australia in this case). Almost needless to
>> say opinion is divided, though 85% of Aussies now support the new laws
>> and they haven't had a mass killing spree since the reforms (1996).
>> This suggests it could be worth a try, but frankly I don't have the
>> facts. Others say neither Australia or the UK are any safer as a
>> result of our legislation. Some even have it Newtown is a hoax
>> conspiracy to disarm Americans to ease a police state into being.
>>
>> We lack informed analysis generally. In some areas, like television
>> economics and university opportunities for our kids, I know enough to
>> know we are being lied to. In others I'm just left wondering why
>> expert opinion just seems lacking. I haven't even seen a sensible
>> presentation of global warming issues. In place of facts we get
>> factional twits rationalising everything to daft ideologies as though
>> this is balanced reporting.
>>
>> On 28 Dec, 20:29, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I actually do understand Molly,,, it is being caught between a rock
>> > and a hard spot,, due to the large amount of wackos out there with
>> > excessive amounts of weapons there is probably little choice left..
>> > with all the fear mongering that is showing up on television .. I
>> > am a us citizen living abroad.. and they are scaring the hell out of
>> > me..
>>
>> > that is probably the greatest reason for taxation of each fire arm
>> > annually it will allow some actual and realistic control and locate
>> > some of the more sick gun maniacs
>> > Allan
>>
>> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > I much prefer the answer of the institution having armed security on
>> > > staff (we will all pay with increased costs at some point) then
>> > > allowing private citizens to carry weapons into the facilities. There
>> > > are places that need to be zones that do not apply to right to carry
>> > > laws, schools, hospitals, stadiums etc. I imagine that the percentage
>> > > of US schools having armed security will go up next year from the
>> > > current 30% in response. The problem of wacko access to guns is the
>> > > sensitive area, where laws restricting folks with a history of mental
>> > > illness might prevent those who need it from getting treatment (or
>> > > treatment for children) because they are afraid of government
>> > > scrutiny.
>>
>> > > On Dec 28, 12:10 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> I know defense contracting is very big manufacturing and entire
>> > >> regions depend on it ..Then you come up against minor things that the
>> > >> christian foundation is built on... there is one law dating back to
>> > >> ancient times simply put Is "Thou shall not commit murder." Just a
>> > >> small problem spiritually ... how can you justify the 200,000 people
>> > >> murdered by american weapons and bombs dropped recently in Iraq.. were
>> > >> american made..
>>
>> > >> The problem is not in the weapons it lies in balance .. fortunately
>> > >> each soul is responsible only for its own actions and decisions.. I
>> > >> have trouble justifying any war or the intentional taking of another
>> > >> life much less thousands of them..
>>
>> > >> I see NRA wants to put one armed policeman in each school is the NRA
>> > >> paying for this solution... and I can predict it will not work simply
>> > >> because it has not worked in the passed .. their next solution will
>> > >> be prison camps not seats of learning.
>>
>> > >> Sorry somethings just piss me off..
>> > >> Allan
>>
>> > >> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> > Currently in the US there is a much needed resurgence in manufacturing that
>> > >> > all states are subsidizing to get their jobs numbers up. this is no
>> > >> > different than any other type of manufacturing subsidy, I suspect, although
>> > >> > the use of the product is a sensitive issue. Here in Michigan, defense
>> > >> > manufacturing is one of the largest sectors, providing a good portion of the
>> > >> > jobs in the southeastern area. Many would argue that with the world economy
>> > >> > teetering, conditions to manufacturing incentives would be problematic and
>> > >> > stifle job growth. State tax breaks for movie production companies has come
>> > >> > under scrutiny lately, as they were extended to boost local economies when
>> > >> > production houses were build and the movies were shot locally.
>>
>> > >> > Can't say that I disagree with the gun maker tax credit opinion above, but
>> > >> > don't you think they would just move their manufacturing to say - China?
>>
>> > >> > It is a complicated issue, that's for sure. I marvel at our ability to
>> > >> > become distracted with ancillary issues. Are manufacturing tax credits
>> > >> > really the reason wackos wipe out children?
>>
>> > >> > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> Gun production is state funded. Smith & Wesson, one of the largest
>> > >> >> gun makers in the country, is headquartered in Springfield, MA.
>> > >> >> According to the company's 2012 annual investment report to the SEC
>> > >> >> (10-k), Smith & Wesson received a large multi-million dollar tax
>> > >> >> credit from the state that started in 2010 and will continue until
>> > >> >> 2017. This tax credit, of $6.0 million, brought a maximum of 225 jobs
>> > >> >> to the state, or roughly twenty seven thousand dollars of taxpayer
>> > >> >> money per job, and was awarded by an obscure committee called "the
>> > >> >> Massachusetts Economic Assistance Coordinating Council." That amount
>> > >> >> works out to a little less than $1 per person in Massachusetts, money
>> > >> >> that goes straight to Smith & Wesson's bottom line. Most Massachusetts
>> > >> >> residents don't know their legislators and Governor have donated a
>> > >> >> dollar in their name to Smith & Wesson through job creation tax
>> > >> >> credits. Regardless of their views on gun control, I'm guessing
>> > >> >> Massachusetts taxpayers probably don't favor subsidization of the
>> > >> >> industry at such a rich rate.
>>
>> > >> >> At the same time as Smith & Wesson receives such bounty from the
>> > >> >> state, the gunmaker has given over $1 million to the National Rifle
>> > >> >> Association (NRA), the biggest lobbying group for guns. This means
>> > >> >> that the state of Massachusetts, while considering further regulations
>> > >> >> on gun purchases, is at the same time indirectly funding the gun
>> > >> >> lobby. To actually reduce the number of guns on the streets, Linsky,
>> > >> >> and many of our state and Federal officials, could start by ending the
>> > >> >> subsidization of gun makers through tax credits and security funds.
>> > >> >> New Hampshire lost the jobs 'created' in MA.
>>
>> > >> >> On 25 Dec, 22:31, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> > I haven't got a figure on the externalities of gun ownership - but car
>> > >> >> > ownership was recently estimated to cost each individual in the UK
>> > >> >> > £850 a year - £48 billion. About £38 billion is generated in taxes.
>> > >> >> > The underlying issue may well be that the way we let cost drive
>> > >> >> > efficiency generally is probably wrong now and we need a better
>> > >> >> > resource utilisation model. A big question is whether we trust our
>> > >> >> > police and other authorities to keep us safe. Here, people who have
>> > >> >> > not needed dealings with the authorities in such circumstances feel
>> > >> >> > content - those who have had dealings are generally worried they don't
>> > >> >> > do a good job. Holding guns may give us a false sense of security in
>> > >> >> > terms of thinking we can look after ourselves when the authorities
>> > >> >> > can't. We may not really understand what the threat is.
>>
>> > >> >> > I don't know what the full debate on gun ownership is. I can think of
>> > >> >> > an economic analogy - there is a big claim at the moment that we are
>> > >> >> > bankrupting our children through government debt. This isn't true,
>> > >> >> > though one can make the argument sound convincing by leaving most of
>> > >> >> > what matters out of it. We are stuck in something similar on gun
>> > >> >> > control.
>>
>> > >> >> > At the heart of these problems is reliable threat identification and
>> > >> >> > the ability to deal with it with appropriate resources. We might
>> > >> >> > start by looking at what we know about sociopaths - the reality is
>> > >> >> > almost completely at odds with reporting. My guess this is only the
>> > >> >> > first thing on a list of 20 plus. The next might be why so many of us
>> > >> >> > are content with 'attitude' rather than the facts that might bring
>> > >> >> > resolution.
>>
>> > >> >> > On 25 Dec, 11:58, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> > > It is possible that everyone here is right, and we don't have all the
>> > >> >> > > details of the problem to examine. I saw an article that listed all
>> > >> >> > > of the
>> > >> >> > > spontaneous mass murderers in the last decade including school
>> > >> >> > > massacres.
>> > >> >> > > The list consisted of the place of event, name of shooter, and
>> > >> >> > > medication
>> > >> >> > > (for behavior modification) he was on at the time.
>>
>> > >> >> > > The US medical model, especially for mental health, is still in the
>> > >> >> > > dark
>> > >> >> > > ages. We no longer blood or electro-shock let for every condition,
>> > >> >> > > but we
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
Actually Rigsy the comment of the Generous Rich is an insult though
there are a few and yes I have meet several among the rich they
appear to give massive amounts of money,, in reality they are
hoarders and an uncaring lot.. Look at the number of them living off
the national wage and giving the rest to or helping their fellow man.?
You said the comment I see it differently than you do..
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:10 AM, rigs <rigs117@gmail.com> wrote:
> Have we been insulted or complimented?
>
> On Dec 28, 3:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I didn't get any books for Christmas, but Amazon and Douglas gift vouchers.
>> That's great! I'll be able to use them when I need something.
>>
>> I like reading here. No author could have come up with such an anarchic
>> plot, ghostly setting and high amount of under-performers and be able to
>> sell it as a product. :)
>>
>> I wouldn't be able to sign this thievery is the root of all evil theory.
>> The possessive 'have' causes wanted and unwanted effects, that's right
>> though. Control comes into play. The Golden Calf never to become an
>> ordinary cow or bull.
>>
>> Put back perspective in context and try again, I say.
>>
>> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 17:34:01 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > I finally have my own copy of David Graeber's 'Debt: the first 5000
>> > years', Hann and Hart's 'Economic Anthropology' and David Orell's
>> > 'Economyths' - I've been dip[ping in and already know they don't offer
>> > much I don't know or how to frame economics problems so enough of us
>> > could understand them. It's good to know others, like me, think
>> > thievery is the root and that the science alleged to be involved is
>> > counterfeit stuff from the 19th century. Graeber finishes by saying
>> > we should have a debt jubilee and start again (after historical
>> > analysis). I'll get through the books by posting them in the toilet
>> > and bathroom as relief from the day job. My guess is we are really as
>> > stuck in a confrontation with power as Burmese peasants stuck with a
>> > Chinese copper mine on their land. Graeber, an anarchist, sounds
>> > rather like Molly or Gabby or Allan in hoping love might usurp self-
>> > interest. I don't drink that soup for the soul! I rather see such
>> > condition as dessert after we grind out a materialist solution after
>> > we realise the rich have been having us on a butty.
>>
>> > On 28 Dec, 12:34, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Interesting, achy, my husband and I are in the same boat. I keep going
>> > > back to the classics on my shelf and the rare books yet uncovered that I
>> > > can find for a song at the internet bookseller. Mostly, we surf the web
>> > > for shreds of what is new in the research and come up short, as this is
>> > > passed on at a need to know basis and posted on the Internet after the
>> > > party or at the risk of indiscretion. Reading has been more interesting
>> > > during other phases of life for me.
>>
>> > > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:08:50 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>>
>> > > > I do something similar to Molly. Reading is largely about trying to
>> > > > fly with ideas for me, different to the day-to-day. I suspect most
>> > > > people in here would like anyone who wants to to be able to access
>> > > > universities. I'd do this by changing what the university is. What
>> > > > we have actually been doing seems to be madness. We are graduating
>> > > > half our population without increasing 'working smarter' jobs or even
>> > > > considering whether this is really possible - the probability is we
>> > > > are devaluing graduate advantage just as we force kids into large debt
>> > > > to get the qualifications. Finance, traditionally an unwanted cost
>> > > > against production and sales, now leeches massive amounts from
>> > > > production we used to retain as wages and liquid capital amongst our
>> > > > 50% least well off (this was about 20% of GDP when I left school ans
>> > > > is down to less than 1%). What I find in reading is consistent
>> > > > distraction from what really matters. There isn't much difference
>> > > > between watch mainstream news, whatever entertainment is on offer and
>> > > > the academic vanity publishing. It feels as though there is nothing
>> > > > to read or watch.
>>
>> > > > On 27 Dec, 23:19, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > I don't agree on the body language or behavioural cues rigs - all
>> > the
>> > > > > tests done show we are about as reliable as the toss of a coin. The
>> > > > > people who are best at making us think we can read them are
>> > > > > psychopaths - three times more likely to secure parole from
>> > 'experts'.
>>
>> > > > > On 27 Dec, 09:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > Yes the rich have more opportunities and exposure to make more
>> > > > > > wealth.. why would you say that is Rigsy?? Why are not these
>> > > > > > opportunities and exposure created for the poor? .. they are the
>> > ones
>> > > > > > that need it. or could it be part of the perks of worshiping at
>> > the
>> > > > > > feet of the golden calf??
>> > > > > > Allan
>>
>> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 2:49 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > It may be the rich have more opportunities and exposure, Allan.
>> > > > Human
>> > > > > > > nature is human nature. Also, celebrity creates another kind of
>> > > > > > > challenge as the artist types gain fame and fortune- often to
>> > laugh
>> > > > at
>> > > > > > > their own popularity and adulation of the public and critics-
>> > > > Picasso
>> > > > > > > comes to mind, for instance- have a savage quote of his around
>> > here
>> > > > > > > somewhere.
>>
>> > > > > > > On Dec 25, 8:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > >> Oddly I think you have a better chance for good ethics among
>> > the
>> > > > poor
>> > > > > > >> over the rich,
>> > > > > > >> Allan
>>
>> > > > > > >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >> > I wonder if the researchers took into account that a truly
>> > > > ethical person
>> > > > > > >> > would not participate in the kind of rubbish that presents
>> > > > predictable
>> > > > > > >> > limited outcomes as fact. There may, indeed, be a
>> > correlation
>> > > > between
>> > > > > > >> > creativity and ethics, but I suspect it is more inclusive and
>> > > > requires
>> > > > > > >> > examination without the limits designed to define results. I
>> > keep
>> > > > going back
>> > > > > > >> > to the model of spiral dynamics, one that allows and
>> > understands
>> > > > that we all
>> > > > > > >> > move up and down and between memes during our lives given the
>> > > > circumstances
>> > > > > > >> > of our experience. Someone who does not have enough money
>> > for
>> > > > food may
>> > > > > > >> > cheat in this experiment more than someone who has never
>> > known
>> > > > financial
>> > > > > > >> > stress or hunger. Here is a pretty good explanation of the
>> > > > original Graves
>> > > > > > >> > material, although I've seen better, its the best I could
>> > find
>> > > > online this
>> > > > > > >> > morning.
>> > > >http://www.edumar.cl/documentos/SD_version_for_constellation5.pdf
>>
>> > > > > > >> > On Monday, December 24, 2012 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, archytas
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> A free paper with the ideas is at
>> > > > > > >> >>http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/11-064.pdf
>> > > > > > >> >> I was interested because I find professional ethics and
>> > > > religious
>> > > > > > >> >> morality collapse under circumstances of self-interest and
>> > > > become
>> > > > > > >> >> rationalisation. WE need creative solutions - but there is
>> > a
>> > > > dark
>> > > > > > >> >> side to creativity.
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> On 24 Dec, 22:03, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > >> >> > "The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to
>> > Everyone
>> > > > —
>> > > > > > >> >> > Especially Ourselves" by Dan Ariely asks a seemingly
>> > simple
>> > > > question —
>> > > > > > >> >> > "is dishonesty largely restricted to a few bad apples, or
>> > is
>> > > > it a more
>> > > > > > >> >> > widespread problem?" — and goes on to reveal the
>> > surprising,
>> > > > > > >> >> > illuminating, often unsettling truths that underpin the
>> > > > uncomfortable
>> > > > > > >> >> > answer. Like cruelty, dishonesty turns out to be a
>> > remarkably
>> > > > > > >> >> > prevalent phenomenon better explained by circumstances and
>> > > > cognitive
>> > > > > > >> >> > processes than by concepts like character.
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> > Work like this is challenging traditional economics - the
>> > > > genre is
>> > > > > > >> >> > 'behavioural economics'. My own take on this book and a
>> > lot
>> > > > of work
>> > > > > > >> >> > from brain science and history is that we are at a tipping
>> > > > point in
>> > > > > > >> >> > respect of the possibility of a human science. I'd like
>> > to
>> > > > see a
>> > > > > > >> >> > broader literature take up this challenge beyond current
>> > > > drivel on
>> > > > > > >> >> > black and white hats.
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> > So what are you guys reading?
>>
>> > > > > > >> > --
>>
>> > > > > > >> --
>> > > > > > >> (
>> > > > > > >> )
>> > > > > > >> |_D Allan
>>
>> > > > > > >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>> > > > > > >> Of course I talk to myself,
>> > > > > > >> Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > > > --
>>
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > (
>> > > > > > )
>> > > > > > |_D Allan
>>
>> > > > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>> > > > > > Of course I talk to myself,
>> > > > > > Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
there are a few and yes I have meet several among the rich they
appear to give massive amounts of money,, in reality they are
hoarders and an uncaring lot.. Look at the number of them living off
the national wage and giving the rest to or helping their fellow man.?
You said the comment I see it differently than you do..
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:10 AM, rigs <rigs117@gmail.com> wrote:
> Have we been insulted or complimented?
>
> On Dec 28, 3:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I didn't get any books for Christmas, but Amazon and Douglas gift vouchers.
>> That's great! I'll be able to use them when I need something.
>>
>> I like reading here. No author could have come up with such an anarchic
>> plot, ghostly setting and high amount of under-performers and be able to
>> sell it as a product. :)
>>
>> I wouldn't be able to sign this thievery is the root of all evil theory.
>> The possessive 'have' causes wanted and unwanted effects, that's right
>> though. Control comes into play. The Golden Calf never to become an
>> ordinary cow or bull.
>>
>> Put back perspective in context and try again, I say.
>>
>> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 17:34:01 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > I finally have my own copy of David Graeber's 'Debt: the first 5000
>> > years', Hann and Hart's 'Economic Anthropology' and David Orell's
>> > 'Economyths' - I've been dip[ping in and already know they don't offer
>> > much I don't know or how to frame economics problems so enough of us
>> > could understand them. It's good to know others, like me, think
>> > thievery is the root and that the science alleged to be involved is
>> > counterfeit stuff from the 19th century. Graeber finishes by saying
>> > we should have a debt jubilee and start again (after historical
>> > analysis). I'll get through the books by posting them in the toilet
>> > and bathroom as relief from the day job. My guess is we are really as
>> > stuck in a confrontation with power as Burmese peasants stuck with a
>> > Chinese copper mine on their land. Graeber, an anarchist, sounds
>> > rather like Molly or Gabby or Allan in hoping love might usurp self-
>> > interest. I don't drink that soup for the soul! I rather see such
>> > condition as dessert after we grind out a materialist solution after
>> > we realise the rich have been having us on a butty.
>>
>> > On 28 Dec, 12:34, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Interesting, achy, my husband and I are in the same boat. I keep going
>> > > back to the classics on my shelf and the rare books yet uncovered that I
>> > > can find for a song at the internet bookseller. Mostly, we surf the web
>> > > for shreds of what is new in the research and come up short, as this is
>> > > passed on at a need to know basis and posted on the Internet after the
>> > > party or at the risk of indiscretion. Reading has been more interesting
>> > > during other phases of life for me.
>>
>> > > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:08:50 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>>
>> > > > I do something similar to Molly. Reading is largely about trying to
>> > > > fly with ideas for me, different to the day-to-day. I suspect most
>> > > > people in here would like anyone who wants to to be able to access
>> > > > universities. I'd do this by changing what the university is. What
>> > > > we have actually been doing seems to be madness. We are graduating
>> > > > half our population without increasing 'working smarter' jobs or even
>> > > > considering whether this is really possible - the probability is we
>> > > > are devaluing graduate advantage just as we force kids into large debt
>> > > > to get the qualifications. Finance, traditionally an unwanted cost
>> > > > against production and sales, now leeches massive amounts from
>> > > > production we used to retain as wages and liquid capital amongst our
>> > > > 50% least well off (this was about 20% of GDP when I left school ans
>> > > > is down to less than 1%). What I find in reading is consistent
>> > > > distraction from what really matters. There isn't much difference
>> > > > between watch mainstream news, whatever entertainment is on offer and
>> > > > the academic vanity publishing. It feels as though there is nothing
>> > > > to read or watch.
>>
>> > > > On 27 Dec, 23:19, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > I don't agree on the body language or behavioural cues rigs - all
>> > the
>> > > > > tests done show we are about as reliable as the toss of a coin. The
>> > > > > people who are best at making us think we can read them are
>> > > > > psychopaths - three times more likely to secure parole from
>> > 'experts'.
>>
>> > > > > On 27 Dec, 09:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > Yes the rich have more opportunities and exposure to make more
>> > > > > > wealth.. why would you say that is Rigsy?? Why are not these
>> > > > > > opportunities and exposure created for the poor? .. they are the
>> > ones
>> > > > > > that need it. or could it be part of the perks of worshiping at
>> > the
>> > > > > > feet of the golden calf??
>> > > > > > Allan
>>
>> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 2:49 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > It may be the rich have more opportunities and exposure, Allan.
>> > > > Human
>> > > > > > > nature is human nature. Also, celebrity creates another kind of
>> > > > > > > challenge as the artist types gain fame and fortune- often to
>> > laugh
>> > > > at
>> > > > > > > their own popularity and adulation of the public and critics-
>> > > > Picasso
>> > > > > > > comes to mind, for instance- have a savage quote of his around
>> > here
>> > > > > > > somewhere.
>>
>> > > > > > > On Dec 25, 8:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > >> Oddly I think you have a better chance for good ethics among
>> > the
>> > > > poor
>> > > > > > >> over the rich,
>> > > > > > >> Allan
>>
>> > > > > > >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >> > I wonder if the researchers took into account that a truly
>> > > > ethical person
>> > > > > > >> > would not participate in the kind of rubbish that presents
>> > > > predictable
>> > > > > > >> > limited outcomes as fact. There may, indeed, be a
>> > correlation
>> > > > between
>> > > > > > >> > creativity and ethics, but I suspect it is more inclusive and
>> > > > requires
>> > > > > > >> > examination without the limits designed to define results. I
>> > keep
>> > > > going back
>> > > > > > >> > to the model of spiral dynamics, one that allows and
>> > understands
>> > > > that we all
>> > > > > > >> > move up and down and between memes during our lives given the
>> > > > circumstances
>> > > > > > >> > of our experience. Someone who does not have enough money
>> > for
>> > > > food may
>> > > > > > >> > cheat in this experiment more than someone who has never
>> > known
>> > > > financial
>> > > > > > >> > stress or hunger. Here is a pretty good explanation of the
>> > > > original Graves
>> > > > > > >> > material, although I've seen better, its the best I could
>> > find
>> > > > online this
>> > > > > > >> > morning.
>> > > >http://www.edumar.cl/documentos/SD_version_for_constellation5.pdf
>>
>> > > > > > >> > On Monday, December 24, 2012 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, archytas
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> A free paper with the ideas is at
>> > > > > > >> >>http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/11-064.pdf
>> > > > > > >> >> I was interested because I find professional ethics and
>> > > > religious
>> > > > > > >> >> morality collapse under circumstances of self-interest and
>> > > > become
>> > > > > > >> >> rationalisation. WE need creative solutions - but there is
>> > a
>> > > > dark
>> > > > > > >> >> side to creativity.
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> On 24 Dec, 22:03, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > >> >> > "The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to
>> > Everyone
>> > > > —
>> > > > > > >> >> > Especially Ourselves" by Dan Ariely asks a seemingly
>> > simple
>> > > > question —
>> > > > > > >> >> > "is dishonesty largely restricted to a few bad apples, or
>> > is
>> > > > it a more
>> > > > > > >> >> > widespread problem?" — and goes on to reveal the
>> > surprising,
>> > > > > > >> >> > illuminating, often unsettling truths that underpin the
>> > > > uncomfortable
>> > > > > > >> >> > answer. Like cruelty, dishonesty turns out to be a
>> > remarkably
>> > > > > > >> >> > prevalent phenomenon better explained by circumstances and
>> > > > cognitive
>> > > > > > >> >> > processes than by concepts like character.
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> > Work like this is challenging traditional economics - the
>> > > > genre is
>> > > > > > >> >> > 'behavioural economics'. My own take on this book and a
>> > lot
>> > > > of work
>> > > > > > >> >> > from brain science and history is that we are at a tipping
>> > > > point in
>> > > > > > >> >> > respect of the possibility of a human science. I'd like
>> > to
>> > > > see a
>> > > > > > >> >> > broader literature take up this challenge beyond current
>> > > > drivel on
>> > > > > > >> >> > black and white hats.
>>
>> > > > > > >> >> > So what are you guys reading?
>>
>> > > > > > >> > --
>>
>> > > > > > >> --
>> > > > > > >> (
>> > > > > > >> )
>> > > > > > >> |_D Allan
>>
>> > > > > > >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>> > > > > > >> Of course I talk to myself,
>> > > > > > >> Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > > > --
>>
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > (
>> > > > > > )
>> > > > > > |_D Allan
>>
>> > > > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>> > > > > > Of course I talk to myself,
>> > > > > > Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
very true
I think all that needs to happen is Gabby write something inside the
community and others join the community and gabby approve of them
joining the community I think it is that simple and she approve them
joining.. control I know nothing about..
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:33 AM, Chris Jenkins
<digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hard to say; they're certainly a force to be reckoned with.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:32 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> New members would be good Chris - but could the cyber-world survive if
>> Gabby and her sister got together in the same space?
>>
>> On 31 Dec, 00:51, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > *laughing* No, not what I meant at all, but then, you knew that. ;)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:43 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > You mean, use the G+ community as an advertising channel? Good idea.
>> > > Would
>> > > you want to write the promo texts? Anyone?
>> >
>> > > 2012/12/31 Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > >> As with Gravity, it would provide a path for additional
>> > >> conversations,
>> > >> and a path for new members to find their way here. But, if it's not
>> > >> something that anyone wants, don't bother. :D
>> >
>> > >> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:18 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> >
>> > >>> Hi Chris, as I said, I reserved the name space, that's all. The
>> > >>> community thing is still going on here. No one seems interested in
>> > >>> moving
>> > >>> and Google still allows to use the groups functionality, which is
>> > >>> much
>> > >>> better suited for our purpose of discussing things. Or do we miss
>> > >>> something? Except you, of course. ;)
>> >
>> > >>> 2012/12/30 Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > >>>> Gabs, what's the link to your community on G+?
>> >
>> > >>>> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 12:46 PM, gabbydott
>> > >>>> <gabbyd...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > >>>>> Google+ Communities
>> > >>>>> <http://www.google.com/+/learnmore/communities/>are out now.
>> >
>> > >>>>> I've had a quick look around and wanted to inform you that I
>> > >>>>> blocked
>> > >>>>> the community name "Minds Eye". I thought it might be useful if
>> > >>>>> one day we
>> > >>>>> decide to move there - or, if we are made to move there. I doubt
>> > >>>>> that
>> > >>>>> anyone of you would want to move there right now, everything is
>> > >>>>> still very
>> > >>>>> chaotic over there. But before we get too exclusively bubblish we
>> > >>>>> might consider to keep that option in mind.
>> >
>> > >>>>> --
>> >
>> > >>>> --
>> >
>> > >>> --
>> >
>> > >> --
>> >
>> > > --
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
I think all that needs to happen is Gabby write something inside the
community and others join the community and gabby approve of them
joining the community I think it is that simple and she approve them
joining.. control I know nothing about..
Allan
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:33 AM, Chris Jenkins
<digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hard to say; they're certainly a force to be reckoned with.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:32 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> New members would be good Chris - but could the cyber-world survive if
>> Gabby and her sister got together in the same space?
>>
>> On 31 Dec, 00:51, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > *laughing* No, not what I meant at all, but then, you knew that. ;)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:43 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > You mean, use the G+ community as an advertising channel? Good idea.
>> > > Would
>> > > you want to write the promo texts? Anyone?
>> >
>> > > 2012/12/31 Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > >> As with Gravity, it would provide a path for additional
>> > >> conversations,
>> > >> and a path for new members to find their way here. But, if it's not
>> > >> something that anyone wants, don't bother. :D
>> >
>> > >> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:18 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> >
>> > >>> Hi Chris, as I said, I reserved the name space, that's all. The
>> > >>> community thing is still going on here. No one seems interested in
>> > >>> moving
>> > >>> and Google still allows to use the groups functionality, which is
>> > >>> much
>> > >>> better suited for our purpose of discussing things. Or do we miss
>> > >>> something? Except you, of course. ;)
>> >
>> > >>> 2012/12/30 Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > >>>> Gabs, what's the link to your community on G+?
>> >
>> > >>>> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 12:46 PM, gabbydott
>> > >>>> <gabbyd...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > >>>>> Google+ Communities
>> > >>>>> <http://www.google.com/+/learnmore/communities/>are out now.
>> >
>> > >>>>> I've had a quick look around and wanted to inform you that I
>> > >>>>> blocked
>> > >>>>> the community name "Minds Eye". I thought it might be useful if
>> > >>>>> one day we
>> > >>>>> decide to move there - or, if we are made to move there. I doubt
>> > >>>>> that
>> > >>>>> anyone of you would want to move there right now, everything is
>> > >>>>> still very
>> > >>>>> chaotic over there. But before we get too exclusively bubblish we
>> > >>>>> might consider to keep that option in mind.
>> >
>> > >>>>> --
>> >
>> > >>>> --
>> >
>> > >>> --
>> >
>> > >> --
>> >
>> > > --
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
--
Assinar:
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