Re: Mind's Eye Instinct for survival

Lee after checking some history briefly my question sounds a bit, well,
daft. It is embarrassing that I overlooked what looks to me like an
humble and honorable spiritual pursuit in a world that drives many to
extremes especially under repeated aggression and repression and to come
out with strength and integrity. I'm still open to comment though. :-)


On 12/14/2012 8:29 PM, James wrote:
> At last count I think there were thousands of identified christian
> sects, probably mostly minor revisions, but that does allow for a bit of
> variation. A history of assimilation sounds like a likely sourc, I know
> there is a perfect word for it (searching memory). And there are the
> gnostics to consider, myself I have seen enough variation on the schools
> of thought to consider it a potentially dynamic religion depending on
> the person.
>
> Lee, I don't really know anything about Sikhism, is there something
> really cool about it you could share, maybe what sets it apart in your
> view?
>
> On 12/14/2012 6:14 PM, Allan H wrote:
>> Oddly Lee christianity won't be dying just sluffing off the infected
>> sick and infected parts.
>> Allan
>>
>> Air gunner full of hot air ready to release it quickly
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2012 10:51 PM, "Lee Douglas" <leerevdouglas@gmail.com
>> <mailto:leerevdouglas@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Ohh I don't know about arrogant Allan. I think it's more like they
>> have painted themselves into a corner. You can't change the word of
>> God (read bible) so you must bend it and manipulate it to mean what
>> you say it means. Unless of course you have the power to change it
>> like our very own King James or that reprobate Constantine. Now of
>> course if we get a liberal Pope, perhaps one day, but I really do
>> think that the death knell for Christianity has started to sound,
>> unless they move quickly.
>>
>> In other news I saw a report on the news the other day that said
>> those in the UK who proclaim no religious faith now stands at 25%
>> that is a 10% increase since last year. Honestly although a lot of
>> us here proclaim membership of the Anglican church, I think a great
>> deal of it is lip service, and once those above my generation start
>> to die out, we'll see this % number increase.
>>
>> On Friday, 7 December 2012 20:02:12 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>
>> Not at all female theology has been around since the start.. I
>> am not
>> christian .. you see administration as a change in theology
>> .When
>> you start correcting the errors christianity has made in the past.
>> but that would take an actual evolution in beliefs rather than
>> administrative changes.. but christianity is far to arrogant to do
>> that.. they have a problem saying they made a mistake.
>>
>> shopping on sunday is an administrative type change..
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Lee Douglas
>> <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Haha whatever gave you that impression Allan?
>> >
>> >
>> > Really though you don't think that female priests represent a
>> change in
>> > theology? I know both gay men and gay woman who are preists,
>> this is known
>> > and excepted in the Anglican church. I don't know one
>> Christian who keeps
>> > the sabath, rather than do a spot of shopping, do you?
>> >
>> > On Friday, 7 December 2012 14:01:48 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I know you dis agree .. birth control and woman bishops
>> effectively no
>> >> more than administration. How has those events changing the
>> theology? They
>> >> still strickly following the rules unchanged since early
>> centuries
>> >> Allan
>> >>
>> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 7, 2012 1:35 PM, "Lee Douglas" <leerev...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> You are joking right Allan?
>> >>>
>> >>> The changes are only in administration? So Catholics the
>> world over are
>> >>> not using contraception in spite of what the pope says? No
>> such change I
>> >>> think is driven and will be further driven by the faiths
>> followers more than
>> >>> it's leaders. When the new Arch Bishop of Canterbury
>> leaves his new post
>> >>> any changes that he has affected will still be there, one
>> day woman Bishops
>> >>> will be common place, despite any changes in administration.
>> >>>
>> >>> Besides if you think of religous ideas in the same way as
>> any and all
>> >>> other ideas, then it is clear to see that such ideas will
>> evolve or die. We
>> >>> no longer belive that the Earth is the center of the
>> universe, that right
>> >>> there is a dead religous idea. Yet Catholosism is still
>> very much with us,
>> >>> and that right there is an example of evolotion of the idea
>> rather than the
>> >>> admisistration.
>> >>> On Friday, 7 December 2012 11:40:07 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The changes are only in administration,, to me that is not
>> evolutionary
>> >>>> type change
>> >>>> Allan
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Dec 7, 2012 11:51 AM, "Lee Douglas"
>> <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hahah maybey, maybe. I am though the eternal optimist so
>> I see things
>> >>>>> differantly.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Anglican church in particular are making some good
>> moves.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> There are though only two things I wish to comment on at
>> this momnet.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> My career in IT support thus far informs me that people
>> do seem to have
>> >>>>> an inbuilt resistance to change, and ultimatly the
>> Christian church in
>> >>>>> particular but of course all other dogmatic religions
>> need to change or they
>> >>>>> risk dieing out.
>> >>>>> On Friday, 7 December 2012 10:02:37 UTC, Allan Heretic
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> From what I have seen it does evolve.. it seems mostly
>> in the
>> >>>>>> negative directions.. probably because of greed and a
>> desire to
>> >>>>>> control rather than spirituality.. there are exceptions
>> but they are
>> >>>>>> rare.
>> >>>>>> Allan
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Lee Douglas
>> <leerev...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> > And in truth Allan religion does evolove, perhaps
>> slowly but evolove
>> >>>>>> > it
>> >>>>>> > does.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > On Thursday, 6 December 2012 19:21:35 UTC, Allan
>> Heretic wrote:
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >> I think that religion should evolve..just like the
>> rest of the
>> >>>>>> >> universe.. when the evolution stops it begins to
>> die.. a good
>> >>>>>> >> example
>> >>>>>> >> of dead beliefs is those our fundamentalist friend is
>> presenting.
>> >>>>>> >> Recite the magickal incantation and and every thing
>> will be all
>> >>>>>> >> right.. this statement to me is one of a dead faith'
>> >>>>>> >> Allan
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 6:31 PM, archytas
>> <nwt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> > Biology is describing a 'co-evolution arms race'.
>> Religious
>> >>>>>> >> > notions
>> >>>>>> >> > of the eternal have a lot in common with Popper's
>> 'World 3' and
>> >>>>>> >> > what
>> >>>>>> >> > we can regard as 'objective' and 'factual' I'm as
>> sure as you
>> >>>>>> >> > about
>> >>>>>> >> > the 'meanness' you often describe and believe the
>> way through it,
>> >>>>>> >> > past
>> >>>>>> >> > it, whatever - is spiritual - maybe a kind of dawning.
>> >>>>>> >> >
>> >>>>>> >> > There's a joke in the new Batman film (other 2
>> hours plus
>> >>>>>> >> > rubbish) -
>> >>>>>> >> > when the bad guys raid the stock exchange a trader
>> says there is
>> >>>>>> >> > no
>> >>>>>> >> > money there for them to steal - the answer is that
>> there must be
>> >>>>>> >> > -
>> >>>>>> >> > otherwise the traders wouldn't be there. I think
>> economics is
>> >>>>>> >> > largely
>> >>>>>> >> > a fetish designed around libidinal and domination
>> 'needs' - but
>> >>>>>> >> > even
>> >>>>>> >> > organised religion becomes such. My guess is we
>> need a spiritual
>> >>>>>> >> > democracy and finance is set against this forcing
>> us into
>> >>>>>> >> > compliance
>> >>>>>> >> > with its control fraud much as many routinely bend
>> their knees in
>> >>>>>> >> > religious observance. Science, admittedly as
>> reliably as a
>> >>>>>> >> > double-
>> >>>>>> >> > glazing salesman, is suggesting human-biological
>> intelligence is
>> >>>>>> >> > already giving way to more machine-substrates that
>> offer quasi-
>> >>>>>> >> > immortality and intellect beyond a singularity we
>> can hardly
>> >>>>>> >> > imagine.
>> >>>>>> >> > In my science fiction dreaming we may discover the
>> alien life on
>> >>>>>> >> > Earth
>> >>>>>> >> > is actually ours and we have only been used by
>> another, more
>> >>>>>> >> > worthy
>> >>>>>> >> > consciousness..
>> >>>>>> >> >
>> >>>>>> >> > On 6 Dec, 12:26, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> Many things are best guesses.. are the foundation
>> to many
>> >>>>>> >> >> things along
>> >>>>>> >> >> what has been observed .. and there is nothing
>> wrong with that
>> >>>>>> >> >> .. many
>> >>>>>> >> >> ideas have evolved from the instinct for survival
>> .. from that
>> >>>>>> >> >> has come
>> >>>>>> >> >> selfishness which has lead to the excessive
>> uncaring greed we
>> >>>>>> >> >> see
>> >>>>>> >> >> today...
>> >>>>>> >> >> sacrificing the other ant.
>> >>>>>> >> >> Allan
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>> >>>>>> >> >> On Dec 6, 2012 11:09 AM, "archytas"
>> <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > Sounds like something Pontius Pilate might have
>> used.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > I guess that David Deutsch and constructor
>> theory tries to get
>> >>>>>> >> >> > back
>> >>>>>> >> >> > to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > reminding science about its root guesses Allan.
>> I take from
>> >>>>>> >> >> > 'Spartacus Ants' sacrificing themselves to
>> destroy slaver ants
>> >>>>>> >> >> > that
>> >>>>>> >> >> > pre-human biology 'knows' something of survival
>> instinct.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > Descartes had it that until we could get to a
>> point of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > re-evaluating
>> >>>>>> >> >> > against his radical doubt one had to trust in a
>> beneficent
>> >>>>>> >> >> > god.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > Whilst we can criticize his system, I think
>> anti-religious
>> >>>>>> >> >> > science
>> >>>>>> >> >> > misses the beat on issues of how we can live
>> until we know
>> >>>>>> >> >> > more. The
>> >>>>>> >> >> > spiritual thus has its place. There is plenty to
>> avoid in its
>> >>>>>> >> >> > history
>> >>>>>> >> >> > of control fraud, abuse, sexism and war crimes -
>> but plenty to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > learn
>> >>>>>> >> >> > in terms of grace and fellowship.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > On 6 Dec, 08:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > it is not for cleaning hands ,, it just gets
>> rid of smell
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > that
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > you
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > can not get rid of no matter how much you
>> wash.. you just
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > wash
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > after
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > youor hands are clean,, then the smell is gone.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > Allan
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:27 PM, gabbydott
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > Hm, I have never thought of using a steel
>> soap bar for
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > cleaning
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > my
>> >>>>>> >> >> > hands. I
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > use it occasionally for my pots and pans.
>> And for the more
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > difficult
>> >>>>>> >> >> > dirt on
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > my hands I use a pumice stone or lemon. And
>> more and more
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > often I
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > wear
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > gloves or buy frozen and precut garlic and
>> onion. But
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > thanks for
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > tip.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > I'm sure that one day I'll make use of it.
>> Why not steel
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > instead
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > stone,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > you're right.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54:42 PM
>> UTC+1, Allan
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > Heretic
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> Well actually Gabby I have this stainless
>> steel soap bar
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> used
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> for
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> getting rid of ordure off your hands
>> things like onion,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> Garlic
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> ,,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> any strong ordure ,, just tried it on the
>> epoxy smell
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> left
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> over from
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> fixing my maxi egg coddler.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> now one of the greatest mysteries of the
>> universe,, how
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> does it
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> work?
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> Allan
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:38 PM, gabbydott
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> <gabb...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > The pointlessness of the points'
>> business. Like Lee, I
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > find
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > the God
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > concept
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > much more to the point. :)
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > I don't follow Lee's sequencing model -
>> first spirit,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > then
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > matter -
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > though.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > This sounds very man-made to me. ;)
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > As for the storytelling aspect, yes, the
>> Chronos story
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > is much
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > more
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > vivid
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > than the "God created (x) and saw it was
>> good" story.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > That's
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > true.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > But
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > children are less likely to have bad
>> dreams at night.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > Which is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > really
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > good.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > Sorry, Allan, I got carried away. What
>> were you talking
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > about?
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > 2012/12/4 Allan H <allan...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> a series of creation is at best a wild
>> guess with no
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> supporting
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> evidence..
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> Allan
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> <123...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > You can pinpoint the beginning of this
>> universe but
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > not
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > that of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > Creation with its series of universes.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Allan H
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > <allan...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> That is not true the beginning can
>> be pretty much
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> pinpointed
>> >>>>>> >> >> > .. as
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> for
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> parallel universes that is just a
>> wild guess with
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> nothing
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > support
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> other than it sounds good. There is
>> more evidence
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> supporting
>> >>>>>> >> >> > the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> spiritual
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> realm than parallel universes
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> Allan
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Dec 4, 2012 2:26 PM, "RP Singh"
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> <123...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> In my view there is no beginning to
>> creation.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> There is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > beginning
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> end to universes There are infinite
>> no. of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> universes in
>> >>>>>> >> >> > parallel
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> continuously many universes are
>> being born and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> many are
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> dying
>> >>>>>> >> >> > ,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> but
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> Creation which includes infinite
>> universes in
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> eternal
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> time ,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > just
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> like
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> the Spirit, is without beginning and
>> without end.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> The
>> >>>>>> >> >> > difference is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> that the nature of creation is
>> dualistic and the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> Spirit
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> non-dual.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Lee
>> Douglas <
>> >>>>>> >> >> > leerev...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Hello Andrew,
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Heh I can envisage many things,
>> but alas many of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > them
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > are not
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > true.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > I
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > distinguish between two things,
>> matter and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > spirit.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Mattter
>> >>>>>> >> >> > is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > all
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > that
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > physical, which includes physical
>> 'matter' and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > also
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > energy.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > To
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > me
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > there
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > no paradox of who created the
>> creator. Before
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > begining
>> >>>>>> >> >> > there
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > was
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > only
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > God, God in spirit, and God
>> created the creation
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > out of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > spirt
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > God.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > That is all matter comes from spirit.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > On Friday, 30 November 2012
>> 18:32:43 UTC, andrew
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > vecsey
>> >>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Lee, I can see where all matter
>> has to have an
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> energy
>> >>>>>> >> >> > component
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> it
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> because matter is manifested as
>> atoms which
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> have
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> motion in
>> >>>>>> >> >> > them.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> But I
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> could
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> also envision pure motion without
>> involving any
>> >>>>>> >> >> > atoms...like a
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> vibration in
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> the fabric of space,
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> On Friday, November 30, 2012
>> 5:53:26 PM UTC+1,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Lee
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Douglas
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> Heh except of course that when
>> it comes right
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> down to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > it.energy
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> matter
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> and matter is energy.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> On Friday, 30 November 2012
>> 11:22:14 UTC,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> andrew
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> vecsey
>> >>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> The paradoxical dilemma of who
>> created the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> creator
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> can be
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> circumnavigated by the
>> possibility that the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> original
>> >>>>>> >> >> > creator
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> was
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> not
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> matter,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> but energy. Just like thinking
>> of anything is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> much
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> faster
>> >>>>>> >> >> > and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> much
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> easier
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> than building it, it becomes
>> conceivable that
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> energy
>> >>>>>> >> >> > patterns
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> could
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> have
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> evolved in a random chance way
>> and finely
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> tuned by
>> >>>>>> >> >> > selective
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> processes to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> reach intelligence similar to
>> how most
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> scientists
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> believe
>> >>>>>> >> >> > that
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> patterns of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms and molecules evolved to
>> form
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> intelligent
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> life.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> Energy patterns could have
>> evolved to a point
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> that
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> they
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> manipulated
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms to desired patterns and
>> forms to code
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > information
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> required
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> for
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> life and to allow them to
>> evolve on their own
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> complex
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> intelligent
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> beings
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> able to wonder at and
>> eventually to solve the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> riddle
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > where
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> they
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> came
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> from, where they are going and
>> why they are
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> alive.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > Meaning and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> purpose could
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> then be given to our fleeting
>> moment of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> existence.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> On Thursday, November 29, 2012
>> 7:55:05 PM
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> UTC+1,
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> archytas
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> ....... All we have in
>> respect of this is
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> to posit
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation, begging the question
>> of what
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> created that
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> in an
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> infinite
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> regress. .....We might get to an
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> intelligent state
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>>> >> >> > which
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> myths are replaced by
>> something more
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> plausible and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> Truth
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> comes
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> closer.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> On 29 Nov, 01:41, RP Singh
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> <123...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > Neil , even after
>> re-transposition how
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > long could
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > brain
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > live
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > --1000 years , 10000years or
>> maybe as long
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > as the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > universe
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ,but
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ultimately it will die or be
>> destroyed at
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the end
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > -
>> >>>>>> >> >> > time of
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > universe. What survives is
>> the Truth
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > behind life
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > and
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > nothing
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > else.
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 3:33
>> AM, archytas
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > <nwte...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > What survives is the gene
>> - subject to
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > mutations
>> >>>>>> >> >> > etc. We
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > already
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > 'Borg' in the sense of mass
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > assimilation.
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > One's mind
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > be
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > transposed to another
>> substrate (nearish
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > future) -
>> >>>>>> >> >> > our
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > bodies
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > currently replaced every 5
>> years or so-
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > and the
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > new
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > substrate
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could
>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > have nanobots that would
>> allow minds to
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> ...
>> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>>> >> >> read more »
>> >>>>>> >> >
>> >>>>>> >> > --
>> >>>>>> >> >
>> >>>>>> >> >
>> >>>>>> >> >
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >> --
>> >>>>>> >> (
>> >>>>>> >> )
>> >>>>>> >> |_D Allan
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>> >>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>> >> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > --
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> (
>> >>>>>> )
>> >>>>>> |_D Allan
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> (
>> )
>> |_D Allan
>>
>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>>
>> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>>
>> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>

--