Re: Mind's Eye Instinct for survival

Some bits on creation, deception and protest are imaginative and I can
see that in Molly's work. I have trouble with the revolting tosh like
Numbers 31 (reducing humanity to the lion's pride). I think one can
apply the imaginative reasoning to something, say, like Modern
Monetary Theory and how we might apply such to getting worthwhile
projects done in full employment. MMT is very appealing in logic, but
is it an 'angel' or 'the devil in disguise'? Similarly, James'
tolerant view is 'good' but how do we cope with the barking
fundamentalist within it? I detest American imperialism (formerly
British, French, German, Mogul, Ottoman, Roman, Persian, Indian ...),
but don't fancy fighting various medieval throwbacks around today with
ploughshares or embracing paradox.
I am inclined to think we have text wrong and is all about as
fundamental as a Randolf Scott movie. I heard today that an old
colleague was suspended and about to be sacked for what can only be
regarded as routine union activity at a university down the road. In
the social development of James' view we should be more pluralist -
yet are seeing very unimaginative unitary perspectives from managers.
His name is Ian Parker (story googles). I'm afraid what James is
saying is becoming merely an ideal and thus easily dismissible rather
like democracy. On the up side, Starbucks is promising to pay UK tax
because enough of us are refusing to drink the muck.

On Dec 12, 12:08 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wit
> Very insightful, Ash.  I think that imagination, especially collective
> imagination, is key.  The rest, historical expression which, while
> interesting, doesn't take the place of.  I see the bible as probably the
> best historical expression I've read, as diagrams of the imagination.  But
> that is reading with an uncommon view.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:23:18 PM UTC-5, Ash wrote:
>
> > Regardless of view, what I think we are talking about is what tools best
> > fit the job, and if we are talking about progress I'd err on the side of
> > a healthy imaginative vein running through humanity and less mired in
> > myths and superstition. It is my hope that somewhere embedded in
> > folksonomy (wrong word probably) are clues to translate the talents of
> > creative psychic bursts and the low bass beats and tones that hold sway
> > of so many.
>
> > On 12/11/2012 8:24 PM, James wrote:
> > > That is where I have difficulty with 'right reason', and I do know where
> > > you guys are coming from, everyone seems to have a view on it, most
> > > people know it when they see it I think. It's a conscience for what is
> > > true like it or not, but it gets colored in agenda and motives that
> > > determines the depth and scope, what narrative representation someone
> > > can present. I think we are rife with personality cults, but that may be
> > > a peculiar oddity of my own view, everything depends on the person. In
> > > the wrong hands you get megalomaniacs in power, in the right hands you
> > > get timeless vanguards of noble and hopeless causes.
>
> > > On 12/10/2012 8:25 AM, archytas wrote:
> > >> I'm more materialist than RP in that I see religion as more to do with
> > >> what we do with and for each other - this said I prefer private prayer
> > >> to collective knee-bending. How does tolerance fare once religionists
> > >> become 'so pure' they can treat anyone else as infidel?
>
> > >> On Dec 10, 1:33 am, James<ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> The original post, that is, hmm sorry. :)
>
> > >>> On 12/9/2012 5:40 PM, James wrote:
>
> > >>>> RP, I have been considering your post and have taken it in the view
> > >>>> of a
> > >>>> biological perspective. It is one that I do think important but I am
> > >>>> still left wondering why to attach such significance in an exclusive
> > >>>> sense. It may be that I am overthinking the concept, it is one that I
> > >>>> hold respect for but not to a degree of conclusiveness. Is there more
> > I
> > >>>> should examine?
>
> > >>>> Browsing the TimesOfIndia recently I found talk about the common
> > views
> > >>>> on China and worry over world dominance. I imagine there are vicious
> > >>>> clashes between them and the Arab speaking regions, it seems
> > >>>> unfortunate
> > >>>> perhaps like being surrounded by strong interests on each side. I
> > >>>> obviously have little political world knowledge. :)
>
> > >>>> On 12/9/2012 1:15 PM, RP Singh wrote:
> > >>>>> Religion is first and foremost about prayer and worship. There is no
> > >>>>> need for that but we must accept a morality code and adhere by it ,
> > >>>>> there should be a feeling of love for one's fellow creatures and
> > >>>>> tolerance towards them.
>
> > >>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 8:41 PM, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Given what they have done with some decent spiritual messages
> > >>>>>> Allan, I
> > >>>>>> sometimes think of 'them' as Xstains. I was born into the
> > tradition,
> > >>>>>> but thought it was twaddle by the time Sunday school was
> > interfering
> > >>>>>> with soccer and cricket. I have no doubt we should focus more on
> > >>>>>> spirituality, fellowship, hospitality, goodwill and sensitivity to
> > >>>>>> others. I just don't want to base this on a pack of lies, banning
> > >>>>>> women from hierarchies, prejudicing gays and xenophobic stuff about
> > >>>>>> outsiders and being part of god's chosen. It's hard to think like
> > >>>>>> this without being prejudiced against the 'worshipers of the blue
> > and
> > >>>>>> white striped rabbit' and purveyors of godswank. The inner danger
> > is
> > >>>>>> becoming religiously anti-religious. I'm actually rather touched by
> > >>>>>> good aspects of some of the stuff.
> > >>>>>> I have no idea why we are clinging to this rock - but I don't want
> > it
> > >>>>>> to be about being amused by Aussie pranksters making hoax calls or
> > >>>>>> murals celebrating vile killing such as one finds in the Vatican.
> > >>>>>> Science clearly provides us no answers to our spiritual plight and
> > >>>>>> religion as I witness it internally is largely about future memory
> > >>>>>> with less myth in it and less reason to take religion as we might
> > >>>>>> otherwise take opiates.
> > >>>>>> A colleague working in India is saying his students are reading
> > Mein
> > >>>>>> Kampf - more or less replacing the word Jew with Muslim and
> > agreeing
> > >>>>>> the plot entirely. We could do with some sensible religion and
> > >>>>>> economics to fill the void that leaves people this vulnerable.
> > >>>>>> Knowledge of thermodynamics or the biochemistry of life isn't
> > >>>>>> going to
> > >>>>>> do that for us.
>
> > >>>>>> On Dec 8, 10:01 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> xtian aka christianity
>
> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:02 AM, rigs<rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> It depends on what religion you are referring to. Very funny line
> > >>>>>>>> about Pilate! :-)
>
> > >>>>>>>> On Dec 6, 4:09 am, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> Sounds like something Pontius Pilate might have used.
>
> > >>>>>>>>> I guess that David Deutsch and constructor theory tries to get
> > >>>>>>>>> back to
> > >>>>>>>>> reminding science about its root guesses Allan. I take from
> > >>>>>>>>> 'Spartacus Ants' sacrificing themselves to destroy slaver ants
> > >>>>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>> pre-human biology 'knows' something of survival instinct.
>
> > >>>>>>>>> Descartes had it that until we could get to a point of
> > >>>>>>>>> re-evaluating
> > >>>>>>>>> against his radical doubt one had to trust in a beneficent god.
> > >>>>>>>>> Whilst we can criticize his system, I think anti-religious
> > science
> > >>>>>>>>> misses the beat on issues of how we can live until we know
> > >>>>>>>>> more. The
> > >>>>>>>>> spiritual thus has its place. There is plenty to avoid in its
> > >>>>>>>>> history
> > >>>>>>>>> of control fraud, abuse, sexism and war crimes - but plenty to
> > >>>>>>>>> learn
> > >>>>>>>>> in terms of grace and fellowship.
>
> > >>>>>>>>> On 6 Dec, 08:15, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>>>>>> it is not for cleaning hands ,, it just gets rid of smell that
> > >>>>>>>>>> you
> > >>>>>>>>>> can not get rid of no matter how much you wash.. you just wash
> > >>>>>>>>>> after
> > >>>>>>>>>> youor hands are clean,, then the smell is gone.
> > >>>>>>>>>> Allan
>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:27 PM, gabbydott<gabbyd...@gmail.com>
>
> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hm, I have never thought of using a steel soap bar for
> > cleaning
> > >>>>>>>>>>> my hands. I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> use it occasionally for my pots and pans. And for the more
> > >>>>>>>>>>> difficult dirt on
> > >>>>>>>>>>> my hands I use a pumice stone or lemon. And more and more
> > often
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I wear
> > >>>>>>>>>>> gloves or buy frozen and precut garlic and onion. But thanks
> > for
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the tip.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that one day I'll make use of it. Why not steel
> > instead
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of stone,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> you're right.
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54:42 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic
> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Well actually Gabby I have this stainless steel soap bar
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> used for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> getting rid of ordure off your hands things like onion,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Garlic ,,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> any strong ordure ,, just tried it on the epoxy smell left
> > over
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> from
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> fixing my maxi egg coddler.
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> now one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,, how does
> > it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> work?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Allan
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:38 PM, gabbydott<gabb...@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The pointlessness of the points' business. Like Lee, I find
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the God
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> concept
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> much more to the point. :)
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't follow Lee's sequencing model - first spirit, then
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> matter -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> though.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds very man-made to me. ;)
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the storytelling aspect, yes, the Chronos story is
> > much
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vivid
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> than the "God created (x) and saw it was good" story. That's
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> true. But
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> children are less likely to have bad dreams at night. Which
> > is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> really
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> good.
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, Allan, I got carried away. What were you talking
> > about?
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/12/4 Allan H<allan...@gmail.com>
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a series of creation is at best a wild guess with no
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporting
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence..
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allan
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh<123...@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can pinpoint the beginning of this universe but not
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Creation with its series of universes.
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Allan H<allan...@gmail.com>
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not true the beginning can be pretty
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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