Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

The truth is we can't protect against insanity. We can't do it against
crazed Muslims chasing 70 virgins in Paradise and we can't do it from
unsocialized mentally disturbed malcontents. We meaning society as a
whole of course. Without the guns perhaps this young man would have
chosen a bomb or a fire or sarin gas as an outlet for his rage. More
laws will have zero effect on this kind of tragedy. There was an
assault rifle ban in '94 that lasted 10 years and had no effect
whatsoever on gun violence.

Could this have been prevented? Well sure. Any number of things could
have been done differently to avoid what happened and those survivors
familiar with the situation that led up to the tragedy will likely
destroy themselves thinking "what if." Life is full of "what ifs." I
am thinking particularly of the father of the assassin here. No sane
parent could avoid feeling culpable here. The suffering around this
shooting is unimaginable to me.

My understanding is that most of the adults killed were running
TOWARDS the killer when they were shot down. They must have known they
would be killed but it may have allowed a child or two more to escape.
"Hero" doesn't seem to cut it. How differently would things have
turned out if one or more of these brave souls had a weapon on them?
What If.

Here's the thing. I think I could live just fine in a world without
weapons. I'm big and fairly strong and have the capability to befriend
or employ those bigger and stronger then me. I'll be just fine. What
about the children and the women? Guns are the great equalizer are
they not? Suddenly an 80lb 12 year old girl can stop a 200lb rapist.
I'm not saying all 12 year olds should be required to carry assault
rifles I'm just asking for some thought on who suffers most if guns
are outlawed. The weak, as always, suffer the most when choices are
removed from the table. The number of choices disappearning from my
society is alarming. From health care to banking and insurance and
investing. It's all getting more expensive and less user friendly.
TOO. MANY. LAWS.

But I digress.

dj



On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 11:27 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
> The NRA is singing its old hymn I see. The Aussies did have a big
> clamp-down that seems successful rigs. If the price of armed guards,
> hospital treatment and such were factored into gun prices along with
> civil litigation for mis-selling and so on ... I don't go for the self-
> protection argument either - even cops have to admit the guy with the
> knife or iron bar will beat them if within 21 feet and their own gun
> is holstered.
>
> On 19 Dec, 05:19, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why not just sell suicide kits with a cyanide capsule? You know the
>> gun dealers have run out of clips in the last four days in case guns
>> are outlawed so some people will still be fearfully armed. How about
>> going back to duels or fistfights? It's all that testosterone.
>>
>> On Dec 18, 12:00 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Most of the firearm killings are suicides - about twice as prevalent
>> > as homicides in US firearms incidents. Ethnicity is a big factor in
>> > some states and not others. I wonder how far we could get by leaving
>> > the guns out of the argument to start with. We wouldn't be much
>> > bothered if these twerps just blew their own heads off.
>>
>> > On Dec 18, 12:14 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > My brother Mike loved guns, and in his 20s moonlighted as a Hollywood
>> > > bodyguard. when he passed away, I found his hand gun, the only one he
>> > > had left. Beautiful, mahogany handle, I am sure it was worth a great
>> > > deal, especially to him. He and I were opposites in a few respects,
>> > > not many. guns have never been my thing, and I hope to go my whole
>> > > life having not had one in my home. It caused a big stir in my family
>> > > when I turned his gun over to the local police dept. I called to ask
>> > > if they were interested, and the officer on the phone asked if the gun
>> > > was loaded. I said, 'you mean you want me to take it out of the
>> > > holster? I wouldn't know how." He said, "I'll be right over." He
>> > > was there in five minutes and his eyes boggled when I showed him the
>> > > gun. It hands were shaking, it was a beauty, complete with brand new
>> > > cleaning kit. I couldn't bear to sell any of his things, and couldn't
>> > > bear the thought of someone being hurt by the gun I had given away.
>>
>> > > The topic of personal firearms, I have found, is like religion and
>> > > politics. The topic is often emotional and discussions heated. There
>> > > has not been a period in human history that I know of that has not
>> > > included war and violence. I would like to think we are evolving into
>> > > a more peaceful existence, but see as much to the contrary as I do to
>> > > support that wonderful hope.
>>
>> > > There are ways to commune and live and think and feel that don't
>> > > include violence. the more we live and relate without it, the more we
>> > > trust overall and less we feel the need to defend ourselves. I can
>> > > see how much difference one individual can make watching Detroit move
>> > > from one Mayor with an ethnocentric view expressed with corrupt and
>> > > violent language and behavior, to one with a world-centric view
>> > > expressed with language and behavior that brings people together in a
>> > > spirit of cooperation (not easy in a city torn apart.)
>>
>> > > I'm with Gabs on this one, and don't feel guns are necessary but for
>> > > trained folks in the service of their country or community as a chosen
>> > > vocation (not hobby). But that is an opinion. And, I suppose, the
>> > > freedom to bear arms if necessary, is as important as breathing.
>> > > Because at one time or another, we are called upon to take the warrior
>> > > aspect. I have been fortunate that in my time, words were only
>> > > necessary. Although I have made that 911 call for assistance in my
>> > > time, and was glad for the service.
>>
>> > > My dad dropped bombs in the Pacific arena in WWII. I can't imagine
>> > > being called into that kind of horror.
>>
>> > > On Dec 18, 5:17 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > You are totally in style with your attitude, Allan. Retro style is selling
>> > > > like hell these days. I had to buy a snapback cap as a Christmas present
>> > > > for my son, the latest rapper style, as the shop owner explained to me. He
>> > > > still remembers how cool it was to have the hole in the back closed. And
>> > > > Noah will get the latest assassins of creed game from my sister. The
>> > > > likelihood that he'll have to deal with Americans from the California, New
>> > > > York, Florida areas is higher than having to kill bears in the mountains.
>>
>> > > > It's smelly in here, I need to go out and get some fresh air.
>> > > > Am 18.12.2012 09:10 schrieb "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> > > > > I think you have a whole lot confused I have enjoyed trout fishing
>> > > > > since I was a child. and I love eating fresh fried trout..
>>
>> > > > > I live in the Netherlands now and there is a great difference in
>> > > > > cultures in relationship to guns, I said nothing about the Europeans
>> > > > > occupying america. there is nothing mythological about it and I am of
>> > > > > European decent,, America was originally settled by native americans
>> > > > > and the europeans that came and occupied and stole their land
>> > > > > murdering them freely in the process is far form a myth
>>
>> > > > > Now back to fishing to those who do not fish,, well I guess it might
>> > > > > be romanticism I guess going to the gym or swimming or jogging or
>> > > > > what ever sport you enjoy fits in the same category.. hunting in the
>> > > > > fall provided us with part of the meat we ate for dinner saving money.
>> > > > > and the same with fishing. They were a regular part of our diet.. as
>> > > > > it was and still is for many Montanans to this to this day..
>> > > > > especially true with poor families..
>>
>> > > > > It is very true that parents teach their children to survive in the
>> > > > > area in which they live as it should be .. if you live in big cities
>> > > > > children have a totally knowledge of survival than my children and
>> > > > > grand children have of survival in Butte Montana... simple
>> > > > > information that if you are a lady in and around your monthly cycle
>> > > > > you don't go for a casual stroll in the woods where bears are known to
>> > > > > in habit.. you just run the possibility of running into a male bear
>> > > > > with romance on it's mind. That doesn't mean it will happen every
>> > > > > time but it is a proven reason for unprovoked bear attacks..
>>
>> > > > > Gabby did you risk letting your children be hit by a car crossing the
>> > > > > street?? you have a greater chance of being hit by a car,, than be
>> > > > > attacked by a bear.. especially if they know how to be prepared to
>> > > > > deal with a bear properly.. It is the dumb tourist that go out and
>> > > > > feed the bears... that ranks in the totally dumb category they are
>> > > > > not a totally cuddle toys you put on your bed that can hurt or kill
>> > > > > you and need to be treated with respect. I don't bait bear so that I
>> > > > > can sell the information to tourist hunters,, it is illegal and i
>> > > > > would wee that you a vacation in the prison for doing that.. baiting
>> > > > > big game is illegal besides being immoral
>>
>> > > > > Those are simple things you teach your children about survival..
>> > > > > unfortunately some of the best trout fishing is is in bear country and
>> > > > > I would not consider forcing my kids to stay in the house because they
>> > > > > might be hit by a car or go fishing.. you teach them not to feed
>> > > > > bears and how to camp correctly as to not attract bears.. how to
>> > > > > handle guns safely
>>
>> > > > > Still like a good fried fresh trout dinner,, I know I am a savage babarian
>> > > > > Allan
>>
>> > > > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 1:48 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > I hear we talking now, Allan. You are telling me that I cannot understand
>> > > > > > the mythical importance of the Europeans occupying America narrative in
>> > > > > your
>> > > > > > culture that is not mine.
>>
>> > > > > > Parents all over the world are teaching their children how to survive and
>> > > > > > how to reach their goals! And going trout fishing is THE American way of
>> > > > > > romanticizing but not talking about their own history. Parents generally
>> > > > > > don't risk their children being eaten by wild bears. They rather feed the
>> > > > > > bears and sell their inside knowledge of where to spot wild bears to
>> > > > > tourist
>> > > > > > bear hunters. Look at their average BMI and you know it's not their
>> > > > > hunting
>> > > > > > and eating too many trouts that formed these bodies. Also what makes you
>> > > > > > think your weather is the most difficult and your mountains the highest?
>> > > > > > Your God given grandezza? As for the wild and dangerous animals, they are
>> > > > > > coming from the east here in mainland Europe, because that's where the
>> > > > > iron
>> > > > > > curtain fell. So watch out, they might soon reach the Netherlands again.
>>
>> > > > > > As for the mass massacres of children and young people by male
>> > > > > individuals,
>> > > > > > we too have had them here in Germany and in Norway quite recently, and we
>> > > > > > are practicing a different gun culture. The culture parallels seem to
>> > > > > meet
>> > > > > > elsewhere. In a different realm if you wish.
>>
>> > > > > > 2012/12/17 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>>
>> > > > > >> oh there is a large difference between europe and the western hunting
>> > > > > >> culture I was brought up in.. You teach your children to hunt and
>> > > > > >> survival skills.. camping was out in mountains and weather can be a
>> > > > > >> bit trouble some you have to learn survival skills.. you never know
>> > > > > >> what the mountains are going to be throwing at you and it can as
>> > > > > >> simple as a storm in the middle July..
>>
>> > > > > >> When I was young major highway US 10 was two lanes ,, and the two lane
>> > > > > >> roads in the German countryside are better than the major highway..
>> > > > > >> both my know how to handle guns very well and with proper gun safety.
>> > > > > >> that is not important to you but if you are out trout fishing in the
>> > > > > >> the back country it is very smart to have a high power rifle with you
>> > > > > >> there are wild animals can hurt you and you have a need be able to
>> > > > > >> take care of yourself and your family..
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
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