Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

Though I'd like to see the guns (and explosives if one remembers the
Bath bombing in 1927) much more difficult to access, I'm more
traumatised (if I let myself be) by memories of not being armed than
the occasions I had to use weapons. In small part this is memory of
the fear, but the big part is that of not being able to act decisively
other than to put one's life in the hands of the idiot with the
weapon. My heart goes out to the very brave school principal and her
relatives.

These problems look intractable. I wonder if our 'literature' is now
so full of violence that it is a significant contributor - this is
something we could do something about - as is a criminal culture from
the 14 year old round the corner and a considerable extortion-racket,
bullying - on to whatever the military-financial complex is up to.
Even a game I play on line is about 'genocidal destruction and
vandalism'. I am struck that perpetrators of such horrors seem in a
perverse teenage trap and diabolically dull in their madness _ I
wonder where they get the scripts from as they are never original. I
also wonder whether one of the tings we might try is more jobs in
civic projects to reclaim the public space beyond grand-child time -
we have lost park-keeps, train guards and even the notion of public
works to 'efficiency' - and yet most of us are frankly unemployed or
under-employed. My local town centre was supposed to become a cafe
society - but I'd be ashamed to offer anyone in here hospitality there
(me, Lee and Don might risk it - but we'd do Manchester instead for
better beer and curry) and we'd go to a village restaurant to evade
yob culture. Even full employment on a more civic basis might let the
very clowns we want to stop into positions we don't want them in. The
system here can't even cope with a sick 14 year-old and the only
difference between yobs in 1970's mainland Britain and Northern
Ireland was in the relative absence of guns and explosives and dire
sectarian discrimination on the mainland. Nothing is easy in any of
this - other than ideals about banning guns in a society full of
them.

On Dec 17, 7:41 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> strange according to the news the mother was part of the doomsday
> prepper cult.  My wife and I watch it all the time the truth is those
> producing the show are fear mongers and needed to be held accountable
> for their teachings. Members of the cult need to be held accountable
> for their actions. We discuss the problems involved and realize people
> need to be prepared for hard times,  what bothers both of us most is
> the callus disregard for life..  the desire murder seems crazy,, it
> seems these people think they are not accountable for their actions
> stock piling guns enough to arm a small army..
>
> That is mental illness. question is what part of the killing of the
> children lays at the feet of the doomsday mother..  did she teach her
> child that it is okay to commit murder?
> Allan
>
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> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 3:07 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > one decent person could make the difference
>
> > On 12/16/2012 5:36 PM, Molly wrote:
>
> >> This was a disturbed child who bounced in an out of school and his
> >> mother home schooled him for awhile.  Knowing this, his mother also
> >> kept a collection of guns in the house, some that were used in this
> >> killer's final, violent act.  Who is culpable?  The society who allows
> >> folks to collect semi automatic weapons in their home, homes that also
> >> have people with known mental illness living in them.  The people who
> >> buy the guns and don't think about the danger of them falling into the
> >> wrong hands?  The known whacko that finally snaps?  A country that
> >> goes around and around about these issues and does little to prevent
> >> the tragedies they produce?
>
> >> Hard to think it is spirit in action.  but I know it is.  and we are.
> >> and, as Neil points out, we are all culpable with our nonchalant
> >> acceptance of violent expressions in our daily lives.
>
> >> On Dec 16, 3:55 pm, rigs<rigs...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>> But violence and cynicism are quite obvious and popular in our western
> >>> culture, in fact, celebrated; no wonder the undercurrent churns and
> >>> explodes. This tragedy seems to have punched me out. Job was no help
> >>> but classical music on the radio seems to help- the orchestra reminds
> >>> me of the beauty humans can create together. The public grade school
> >>> my children attended had a great music teacher back in the day who
> >>> would put on an operetta that would bring tears to your eyes. We can't
> >>> terrify the young and ruin their child memories of Christmas with this
> >>> and we might pay more attention to the news around the world and
> >>> realize troubles and violence around the world-yes, esp. in Syria
> >>> right now.//I could never carry a weapon- just a tiny Swiss Army
> >>> knife- that's it. But if I were to defend something, I guess I'd have
> >>> to. Anyway- this man broke into the school by-passing security. He
> >>> seems too evil to pray for- the way he killed his mother and then why
> >>> would he continue his rampage at his former grade school? Such hatred!
>
> >>> On Dec 16, 1:14 pm, Molly<mollyb...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>   The undercurrent of violence leads to all of us becoming suspect.
>
> >>>> Yes, indeed.
>
> >>>> On Dec 16, 12:22 pm, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>> The debates/action seem to have gone nowhere Molly.  One can even
> >>>>> wonder whether collapsing lobby power and vast money in US politics
> >>>>> would help by preventing the NRA targeting politicians wanting to make
> >>>>> the anti-stand.  The speed of our response to similar incidents in the
> >>>>> UK has been very poor and I favour more weapons being carried by our
> >>>>> police (though some idiot cop attacked a blind guy with a Taser
> >>>>> recently, claiming his white stick was a Samurai sword).  The
> >>>>> undercurrent of violence leads to all of us becoming suspect.
>
> >>>>> On Dec 16, 3:10 pm, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>>> the concept of more guns less death is totally erroneous, many people
> >>>>>> especially those that have to have many guns have a problem..  My job
> >>>>>> required me to carry a pistol and it was concealed,  Truth is I hated
> >>>>>> it.. and was written upon more than one occasion for not carrying my
> >>>>>> weapon.the truth is if you kill some one you can never give it back..
> >>>>>> if you cause injury it is permanent.  anyone wanting to carry a
> >>>>>> concealed weapon is really not all there I am sorry.
>
> >>>>>> I still love target practice and go through about 500 pellets a
> >>>>>> month,,  my pistol now is a little pump crosman .177 and it is a blast
> >>>>>> I have more fun sitting in my back yard plinking away and my yard is
> >>>>>> only 12 meters long..  my wife and I have a competition going..  we
> >>>>>> don't miss and the groups are a tight as the pistol is capable of.
> >>>>>> the truth is It is far more fun than I have ever had with any of the
> >>>>>> guns I have owned ..  and the cheapest..  to allow nuts to carry
> >>>>>> concealed weapons..   no wonder I like it over here..
> >>>>>> Allan
>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Molly<mollyb...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> I suspect that this is one of those Michigan issues that James was
> >>>>>>> referring to as there is legislation before the governor now that
> >>>>>>> would extend the right to carry laws currently on the books to
> >>>>>>> include
> >>>>>>> those facilities now excluded like arenas, convention centers,
> >>>>>>> hospitals, schools etc.......
>
> >>>>>>> I completely agree that the problem is not with the guns, and that
> >>>>>>> agendas are being driven at every opportunity.  But I must say, as
> >>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>> working in a facility that may host 100,000/day, that anyone
> >>>>>>> discharging a firearm at any time would create crowd control issues
> >>>>>>> wherein a multitude of folks would die or suffer injury from causes
> >>>>>>> other than gunshot.  The equation that more guns=less death is indeed
> >>>>>>> questionable.  Whether or not we will ever be able to eliminate crazy
> >>>>>>> is also.  Answers don't come easy, and we often spin our wheels
> >>>>>>> looking for them rather than making any real progress,
>
> >>>>>>> On Dec 16, 7:43 am, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> It's impossible to think about tragedies like Newtown without just
> >>>>>>>> wishing they didn't happen and sorrow for the victims and bereaved.
> >>>>>>>> In western Europe we tend to see such events as American and a
> >>>>>>>> result
> >>>>>>>> of lunatic gun control.  A fair representation of this thinking can
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>> found in today's Observer - a liberal Sunday
> >>>>>>>> broadsheet.http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/16/newtown-shooting-...
>
> >>>>>>>> The gist is one in ten thousand will die through firearm use in the
> >>>>>>>> US
> >>>>>>>> every year with more deaths than in Syria in its civil war.
> >>>>>>>> Arguments
> >>>>>>>> on this issue quickly degenerate with some saying the answer is to
> >>>>>>>> arm
> >>>>>>>> more decent people (so they can shoot the creeps and limit damage)
> >>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>> the right to bear arms to protect democracy from government.
>
> >>>>>>>> The real question is how we can stop scum, creeps, nutters and
> >>>>>>>> people
> >>>>>>>> pushed over the edge from using violence against others.  We are all
> >>>>>>>> frankly wide open to this and the problem of what happens to our
> >>>>>>>> societies because of measures taken in prevention.  I wonder whether
> >>>>>>>> answers to this may be well outside gun law and the NRA opposition
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> it - this 'debate' has, after all, gone nowhere forever - much as we
> >>>>>>>> have not prevented our governments pursuing imperialist wars or race
> >>>>>>>> to the bottom global economics.
>
> >>>>>>> --
>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>   (
> >>>>>>    )
> >>>>>> |_D Allan
>
> >>>>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >>>>>> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
> >>>>>>   Full of Hot Air&  Ready To Expel It Quickly.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
>
> > --
>
> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
>  Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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