Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

I know defense contracting is very big manufacturing and entire
regions depend on it ..Then you come up against minor things that the
christian foundation is built on... there is one law dating back to
ancient times simply put Is "Thou shall not commit murder." Just a
small problem spiritually ... how can you justify the 200,000 people
murdered by american weapons and bombs dropped recently in Iraq.. were
american made..

The problem is not in the weapons it lies in balance .. fortunately
each soul is responsible only for its own actions and decisions.. I
have trouble justifying any war or the intentional taking of another
life much less thousands of them..

I see NRA wants to put one armed policeman in each school is the NRA
paying for this solution... and I can predict it will not work simply
because it has not worked in the passed .. their next solution will
be prison camps not seats of learning.

Sorry somethings just piss me off..
Allan

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
> Currently in the US there is a much needed resurgence in manufacturing that
> all states are subsidizing to get their jobs numbers up. this is no
> different than any other type of manufacturing subsidy, I suspect, although
> the use of the product is a sensitive issue. Here in Michigan, defense
> manufacturing is one of the largest sectors, providing a good portion of the
> jobs in the southeastern area. Many would argue that with the world economy
> teetering, conditions to manufacturing incentives would be problematic and
> stifle job growth. State tax breaks for movie production companies has come
> under scrutiny lately, as they were extended to boost local economies when
> production houses were build and the movies were shot locally.
>
> Can't say that I disagree with the gun maker tax credit opinion above, but
> don't you think they would just move their manufacturing to say - China?
>
> It is a complicated issue, that's for sure. I marvel at our ability to
> become distracted with ancillary issues. Are manufacturing tax credits
> really the reason wackos wipe out children?
>
>
> On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>>
>> Gun production is state funded. Smith & Wesson, one of the largest
>> gun makers in the country, is headquartered in Springfield, MA.
>> According to the company's 2012 annual investment report to the SEC
>> (10-k), Smith & Wesson received a large multi-million dollar tax
>> credit from the state that started in 2010 and will continue until
>> 2017. This tax credit, of $6.0 million, brought a maximum of 225 jobs
>> to the state, or roughly twenty seven thousand dollars of taxpayer
>> money per job, and was awarded by an obscure committee called "the
>> Massachusetts Economic Assistance Coordinating Council." That amount
>> works out to a little less than $1 per person in Massachusetts, money
>> that goes straight to Smith & Wesson's bottom line. Most Massachusetts
>> residents don't know their legislators and Governor have donated a
>> dollar in their name to Smith & Wesson through job creation tax
>> credits. Regardless of their views on gun control, I'm guessing
>> Massachusetts taxpayers probably don't favor subsidization of the
>> industry at such a rich rate.
>>
>> At the same time as Smith & Wesson receives such bounty from the
>> state, the gunmaker has given over $1 million to the National Rifle
>> Association (NRA), the biggest lobbying group for guns. This means
>> that the state of Massachusetts, while considering further regulations
>> on gun purchases, is at the same time indirectly funding the gun
>> lobby. To actually reduce the number of guns on the streets, Linsky,
>> and many of our state and Federal officials, could start by ending the
>> subsidization of gun makers through tax credits and security funds.
>> New Hampshire lost the jobs 'created' in MA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 Dec, 22:31, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I haven't got a figure on the externalities of gun ownership - but car
>> > ownership was recently estimated to cost each individual in the UK
>> > £850 a year - £48 billion. About £38 billion is generated in taxes.
>> > The underlying issue may well be that the way we let cost drive
>> > efficiency generally is probably wrong now and we need a better
>> > resource utilisation model. A big question is whether we trust our
>> > police and other authorities to keep us safe. Here, people who have
>> > not needed dealings with the authorities in such circumstances feel
>> > content - those who have had dealings are generally worried they don't
>> > do a good job. Holding guns may give us a false sense of security in
>> > terms of thinking we can look after ourselves when the authorities
>> > can't. We may not really understand what the threat is.
>> >
>> > I don't know what the full debate on gun ownership is. I can think of
>> > an economic analogy - there is a big claim at the moment that we are
>> > bankrupting our children through government debt. This isn't true,
>> > though one can make the argument sound convincing by leaving most of
>> > what matters out of it. We are stuck in something similar on gun
>> > control.
>> >
>> > At the heart of these problems is reliable threat identification and
>> > the ability to deal with it with appropriate resources. We might
>> > start by looking at what we know about sociopaths - the reality is
>> > almost completely at odds with reporting. My guess this is only the
>> > first thing on a list of 20 plus. The next might be why so many of us
>> > are content with 'attitude' rather than the facts that might bring
>> > resolution.
>> >
>> > On 25 Dec, 11:58, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > It is possible that everyone here is right, and we don't have all the
>> > > details of the problem to examine. I saw an article that listed all
>> > > of the
>> > > spontaneous mass murderers in the last decade including school
>> > > massacres.
>> > > The list consisted of the place of event, name of shooter, and
>> > > medication
>> > > (for behavior modification) he was on at the time.
>> >
>> > > The US medical model, especially for mental health, is still in the
>> > > dark
>> > > ages. We no longer blood or electro-shock let for every condition,
>> > > but we
>> > > medicate for every condition. Not sure there is too much of a
>> > > difference.
>> > > Would like to see some figures on the number of pharmaceutical
>> > > commercials
>> > > on US TV and how much revenue they generate for the networks. They
>> > > claim
>> > > not to "sell" drugs to the general public but inform. Actually, it is
>> > > a
>> > > CYA for class action law suits so the companies can claim the public
>> > > was
>> > > informed of possible side effects. Result - people walk into the
>> > > doctors
>> > > office and ask for their drug of choice, based on the info. A pill
>> > > for
>> > > every problem society eventually shows the wear of such a poor model
>> > > for
>> > > health and wellness.
>> >
>> > > On Tuesday, December 25, 2012 2:25:17 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
>> >
>> > > > civic vigilance has not worked in the not worked in the past.. why
>> > > > do
>> > > > you think it will work now? all that has lead to is the situation
>> > > > there is now,, where maniacs go around murdering people at will.
>> > > > Sorry civic vigilance is not a solution it is part of the problem..
>> > > > Allan
>> >
>> > > > On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Don Johnson
>> > > > <daj...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > The answer is more civic vigilance. The media saturation of this
>> > > > > event
>> > > > > has us all on red alert. Perhaps more options will be made
>> > > > > available
>> > > > > to those of us taking care of mentally disturbed individuals. That
>> > > > > would be a good thing but for now I have to have a fairly large
>> > > > > support group available for help as needed. Friends, family and
>> > > > > church. I do keep my gun in a safe btw.
>> >
>> > > > > dj
>> >
>> > > > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 9:41 AM, archytas
>> > > > > <nwt...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >> Given the god-like power to change this situation in the US I'd
>> > > > >> probably look closely at what the Australians did and go for a
>> > > > >> ban on
>> > > > >> personal holding of guns, ammo and explosives. Britain had its
>> > > > >> own
>> > > > >> wild west times - highwaymen and smugglers ruled substantial
>> > > > >> areas
>> > > > >> here once. More recently we had plenty of people with explosives
>> > > > >> engaged in land clearance (blowing up tree stumps etc.) - the
>> > > > >> most
>> > > > >> famous was Blaster Bates who became an itinerant comedian. None
>> > > > >> of
>> > > > >> them or our farmers blew up any schools as far as I know. It has
>> > > > >> generally taken a cause (like romantic republicanism) to cause
>> > > > >> such in
>> > > > >> Britain - even they baulked at attacking schools.
>> >
>> > > > >> I'm really against organising our societies to cope with scum and
>> > > > >> nutters and think the real answers lie in more sharing and
>> > > > >> commitment
>> > > > >> to each other. I could probably blow our town hall up with
>> > > > >> ingredients in the kitchen and shed - but suspect the preparation
>> > > > >> time
>> > > > >> would cool me off! A lot of the problem is ease of access to
>> > > > >> easily
>> > > > >> used weapons in deranged moments. Though its all easier with
>> > > > >> assault
>> > > > >> rifles and even more so with drone missiles, dedicated lunatics
>> > > > >> with
>> > > > >> short swords have been as effective in history and Japanese
>> > > > >> hornets
>> > > > >> slay whole bee hives by individual decapitation. The term
>> > > > >> carnage
>> > > > >> comes from a point in history before gunpowder.
>> >
>> > > > >> Deep down I think the US should disarm - but I also think some of
>> > > > >> those naively in favour of this are as much part of the problem
>> > > > >> as the
>> > > > >> NRA. It's good to know Don has more sartorial grace than to
>> > > > >> favour
>> > > > >> purple berets. I dislike hats generally, but would support
>> > > > >> armbands -
>> > > > >> 'Dads' Army' perhaps! In parts of the word a single AKM would
>> > > > >> disrupt
>> > > > >> the balance of power. I doubt anyone would think providing
>> > > > >> truckloads
>> > > > >> of them a good idea in such circumstances. I don't know the
>> > > > >> answer -
>> > > > >> but it's fairly obvious foreign policy is killing more people
>> > > > >> than
>> > > > >> lack of domestic gun control.
>> >
>> > > > >> To protect police stations on the mainland under the IRA threat,
>> > > > >> uniform cops were posted to sentry duty unarmed. Quite what good
>> > > > >> this
>> > > > >> was supposed to do was never explained. I suspect designated
>> > > > >> school
>> > > > >> defenders would, likewise, simply become the first target of the
>> > > > >> mad
>> > > > >> shooter and probably be armed with pea-shooters. The cost of
>> > > > >> decent
>> > > > >> guarding is probably the equivalent of hiring two teachers - and
>> > > > >> you
>> > > > >> are sacking teachers.
>> >
>> > > > >> With the answer beyond us for so long one has to wonder if we can
>> > > > >> break up the arguments in a different way and think about piecing
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >> results together in a different manner.
>> > > > >> On 24 Dec, 01:10, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>> It's really hard to know what to do Don. The so-called
>> > > > >>> arguments are
>> > > > >>> clearly factional and largely ignorant on all sides. One reason
>> > > > >>> the
>> > > > >>> shotgun laws in the UK were so lax was they were made in
>> > > > >>> deference to
>> > > > >>> the aristos who owned them. I wouldn't swap the UK situation
>> > > > >>> for that
>> > > > >>> in the US (or Jamaica) but it is obvious that legislation isn't
>> > > > >>> any
>> > > > >>> kind of answer on its own. I'm not even sure the criminal evil
>> > > > >>> and
>> > > > >>> those gone mad would be deterred by an army of folk like me and
>> > > > >>> you as
>> > > > >>> citizens on patrol - and they might even join up.
>> > > > >>> Molly's right about mental care - but who'd want to be a social
>> > > > >>> worker
>> > > > >>> in homes full of guns?
>> >
>> > > > >>> On 23 Dec, 22:11, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >>> > Guns and ammunition sales are through the roof around here.
>> > > > Especially
>> > > > >>> > heavy assault rifles. Ammunition is so expensive I don't
>> > > > >>> > really even
>> > > > >>> > go to the range anymore.
>> >
>> > > > >>> > A tax on gun owners is unacceptable to me. We already take on
>> > > > >>> > extra
>> > > > >>> > risk and responsibility just by having one. I'll take one of
>> > > > >>> > your
>> > > > >>> > suggestions to heart Archy, Let's increase civil
>> > > > >>> > responsibility.
>> > > > Let's
>> > > > >>> > actually ENCOURAGE law abiding citizens to own and carry
>> > > > >>> > weapons
>> > > > >>> > rather then demonize the practice. (Seems to me the NRA is the
>> > > > >>> > gun
>> > > > >>> > owners only line of defense in the public eye and they are
>> > > > >>> > roundly
>> > > > >>> > demonized) It's sad most of the folks I know that are
>> > > > >>> > responsible
>> > > > and
>> > > > >>> > smart would never own a gun because of the stigmatism. However
>> > > > >>> > I
>> > > > know
>> > > > >>> > plenty of less-then-intelligent and cavalier individuals that
>> > > > >>> > are
>> > > > "gun
>> > > > >>> > enthusiasts." The same type of person that owns a pit bull not
>> > > > >>> > for
>> > > > the
>> > > > >>> > fact that they are loving loyal lap dogs but because they have
>> > > > >>> > a
>> > > > >>> > reputation for meanness.
>> >
>> > > > >>> > I'd be ok with testing folks before they could own a
>> > > > >>> > gun.(maybe we
>> > > > >>> > should do that for pit bull owners as well) Much like what the
>> > > > >>> > concealed carry laws are in Texas. I'd even be ok with a
>> > > > >>> > written
>> > > > exam
>> > > > >>> > on safety and gun care that would be hard enough to keep the
>> > > > >>> > idiots
>> > > > >>> > from owning and carrying. I think it would be great if those
>> > > > >>> > taking
>> > > > >>> > that extra responsibility got some perks here and there. Maybe
>> > > > >>> > skip
>> > > > >>> > the line at the post office and DPS and so forth. We could
>> > > > >>> > have
>> > > > >>> > special purple berets made up with "citizen watch" written in
>> > > > >>> > Latin
>> > > > >>> > with an image of a sniper or something on it. Ok now I'm
>> > > > >>> > kidding.
>> > > > >>> > Purple isn't my color. Complimentary ammo to stay in practice
>> > > > >>> > would
>> > > > be
>> > > > >>> > nice tho.
>> >
>> > > > >>> > dj
>> >
>> > > > >>> > On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:06 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >>> > > Google threw up two ads for body armour and ammunition on
>> > > > >>> > > the last
>> > > > >>> > > text!
>> >
>> > > > >>> > > On 23 Dec, 18:47, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>> > >> it would be a new system.. one to be created,, you are
>> > > > >>> > >> fighting
>> > > > the
>> > > > >>> > >> NRA (pain in the butt) this is the only way I can see
>> > > > >>> > >> that you
>> > > > can
>> > > > >>> > >> avoid
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > read more »
>
> --
>
>
>



--
(
)
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

--