Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

I can't think of it at the moment James. In one amazingly stupid
episode in Northern Ireland our government went in for disarming - and
disarmed the police. Ludicrous as this was, the 'Troubles' in the
late 60s/early 70s can rightly be described in part as a police riot.
20 years of horror there could have been averted had we been able to
take the realities to heart as Molly suggests. The NRA farce reminded
me of our Parliament grilling managerial clowns from Google, Starbucks
and Amazon on tax avoidance - with them all claiming the highest
ethical standards - none of them 'knew' any details of where the
offshore money is, how much there is and how a company selling coffee
can manage not to pay corporation tax in the country they sell it in.
The managers were clearly patsies put up to evade revealing the
details - the politicians such dupes they had got the wrong people and
couldn't present an analysis of the books. The Starwucks twerp was
issuing propaganda on 'job creation' as though big companies like that
don't really trash more jobs in the competition.

How will we raise the money for more cops Moll? - we need more here
too for equally pressing reasons. A tax on the gun owners? In
economic terms we are in the realm of externalities - gun purchase
doesn't include payment for the problems they cause - not dealing
early with our crooks and 'mad' people transfers the cost to victims
and so on. I think we should be dealing with these issues by
expanding civil society.


On 23 Dec, 01:55, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The best explanation I heard was the spokesperson who issued that tirade
> on Friday was a patsy, at best hiding behind the shield of popular
> opinion of the NRA servicing the lunatic fringe, while doing untold
> damage to the members they are supposed to represent (of which, opinion
> polls appear not to be mostly lunatics, nor in agreement with NRA policy
> positions), is in fact on the take from special industry interests, and
> at worst all-of-the-above without an ounce of reservation or conscience
> other than to lobbying interests. Triple agent theories aren't worth the
> energy, greed and ignorance sums up DC nicely indiscriminately IMO. Who
> would be in the best position to rile up fear among large populations
> and get the gov't to move it's pieces in line, who stands the most to
> gain? Does a rhetorical question require a question mark?
>
> Shame indeed Molly. This guy is probably destined to get canned within a
> year, and leave with a little severance bonus and a nice handful of
> chips to play in the next round of dupe the morons. Organized crime has
> a nasty word for it I can't remember, lend me a hand Archy?
>
> On 12/22/2012 8:02 AM, Molly wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I agree, Alan.  there are issues with types of guns, number of guns,
> > guns accessible to folks with documented mental instability.  Right to
> > bear arms is important.  Right to own arsenals is another story.  As
> > is right to carry into places that make others vulnerable because of
> > it.  The NRA isn't far off, I think, on its position that if schools,
> > hospitals, stadiums etc need armed police then they should have them,
> > instead of giving everyone who walks in the building the right to
> > carry.  However, the NRA, as usual, is using the tragedy to push their
> > agenda, and have the money to do it.  I have always found this
> > unconscionable. Will never forget one of their political campaign
> > flyers that had a picture of the US President in the sight of a gun.
> > Unacceptable.
>
> > On Dec 22, 3:54 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> if the adults were running toward the killer then they must be kretes
> >> because hero fight like kretes..   and that is what they truly are not
> >> some one putting their own life first and hiding away..  No one has
> >> any business with assault rifles including all military..all military
> >> world wide.
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 1:23 AM, Don Johnson<daj...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>> The truth is we can't protect against insanity. We can't do it against
> >>> crazed Muslims chasing 70 virgins in Paradise and we can't do it from
> >>> unsocialized mentally disturbed malcontents. We meaning society as a
> >>> whole of course. Without the guns perhaps this young man would have
> >>> chosen a bomb or a fire or sarin gas as an outlet for his rage. More
> >>> laws will have zero effect on this kind of tragedy. There was an
> >>> assault rifle ban in '94 that lasted 10 years and had no effect
> >>> whatsoever on gun violence.
>
> >>> Could this have been prevented? Well sure. Any number of things could
> >>> have been done differently to avoid what happened and those survivors
> >>> familiar with the situation that led up to the tragedy will likely
> >>> destroy themselves thinking "what if." Life is full of "what ifs." I
> >>> am thinking particularly of the father of the assassin here. No sane
> >>> parent could avoid feeling culpable here. The suffering around this
> >>> shooting is unimaginable to me.
>
> >>> My understanding is that most of the adults killed were running
> >>> TOWARDS the killer when they were shot down. They must have known they
> >>> would be killed but it may have allowed a child or two more to escape.
> >>> "Hero" doesn't seem to cut it. How differently would things have
> >>> turned out if one or more of these brave souls had a weapon on them?
> >>> What If.
>
> >>> Here's the thing. I think I could live just fine in a world without
> >>> weapons. I'm big and fairly strong and have the capability to befriend
> >>> or employ those bigger and stronger then me. I'll be just fine. What
> >>> about the children and the women? Guns are the great equalizer are
> >>> they not? Suddenly an 80lb 12 year old girl can stop a 200lb rapist.
> >>> I'm not saying all 12 year olds should be required to carry assault
> >>> rifles I'm just asking for some thought on who suffers most if guns
> >>> are outlawed. The weak, as always, suffer the most when choices are
> >>> removed from the table. The number of choices disappearning from my
> >>> society is alarming. From health care to banking and insurance and
> >>> investing. It's all getting more expensive and less user friendly.
> >>> TOO. MANY. LAWS.
>
> >>> But I digress.
>
> >>> dj
>
> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 11:27 AM, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>> The NRA is singing its old hymn I see.  The Aussies did have a big
> >>>> clamp-down that seems successful rigs.  If the price of armed guards,
> >>>> hospital treatment and such were factored into gun prices along with
> >>>> civil litigation for mis-selling and so on ... I don't go for the self-
> >>>> protection argument either - even cops have to admit the guy with the
> >>>> knife or iron bar will beat them if within 21 feet and their own gun
> >>>> is holstered.
>
> >>>> On 19 Dec, 05:19, rigs<rigs...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>>> Why not just sell suicide kits with a cyanide capsule? You know the
> >>>>> gun dealers have run out of clips in the last four days in case guns
> >>>>> are outlawed so some people will still be fearfully armed. How about
> >>>>> going back to duels or fistfights? It's all that testosterone.
>
> >>>>> On Dec 18, 12:00 pm, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Most of the firearm killings are suicides - about twice as prevalent
> >>>>>> as homicides in US firearms incidents.  Ethnicity is a big factor in
> >>>>>> some states and not others.  I wonder how far we could get by leaving
> >>>>>> the guns out of the argument to start with.  We wouldn't be much
> >>>>>> bothered if these twerps just blew their own heads off.
>
> >>>>>> On Dec 18, 12:14 pm, Molly<mollyb...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> My brother Mike loved guns, and in his 20s moonlighted as a Hollywood
> >>>>>>> bodyguard.  when he passed away, I found his hand gun, the only one he
> >>>>>>> had left.  Beautiful, mahogany handle, I am sure it was worth a great
> >>>>>>> deal, especially to him.  He and I were opposites in a few respects,
> >>>>>>> not many.  guns have never been my thing, and I hope to go my whole
> >>>>>>> life having not had one in my home.  It caused a big stir in my family
> >>>>>>> when I turned his gun over to the local police dept.  I called to ask
> >>>>>>> if they were interested, and the officer on the phone asked if the gun
> >>>>>>> was loaded.  I said, 'you mean you want me to take it out of the
> >>>>>>> holster?  I wouldn't know how."  He said, "I'll be right over."  He
> >>>>>>> was there in five minutes and his eyes boggled when I showed him the
> >>>>>>> gun.  It hands were shaking, it was a beauty, complete with brand new
> >>>>>>> cleaning kit.  I couldn't bear to sell any of his things, and couldn't
> >>>>>>> bear the thought of someone being hurt by the gun I had given away.
>
> >>>>>>> The topic of personal firearms, I have found, is like religion and
> >>>>>>> politics.  The topic is often emotional and discussions heated.  There
> >>>>>>> has not been a period in human history that I know of that has not
> >>>>>>> included war and violence.  I would like to think we are evolving into
> >>>>>>> a more peaceful existence, but see as much to the contrary as I do to
> >>>>>>> support that wonderful hope.
>
> >>>>>>> There are ways to commune and live and think and feel that don't
> >>>>>>> include violence.  the more we live and relate without it, the more we
> >>>>>>> trust overall and less we feel the need to defend ourselves.  I can
> >>>>>>> see how much difference one individual can make watching Detroit move
> >>>>>>> from one Mayor with an ethnocentric view expressed with corrupt and
> >>>>>>> violent language and behavior, to one with a world-centric view
> >>>>>>> expressed with language and behavior that brings people together in a
> >>>>>>> spirit of cooperation (not easy in a city torn apart.)
>
> >>>>>>> I'm with Gabs on this one, and don't feel guns are necessary but for
> >>>>>>> trained folks in the service of their country or community as a chosen
> >>>>>>> vocation (not hobby).  But that is an opinion.  And, I suppose, the
> >>>>>>> freedom to bear arms if necessary, is as important as breathing.
> >>>>>>> Because at one time or another, we are called upon to take the warrior
> >>>>>>> aspect.  I have been fortunate that in my time, words were only
> >>>>>>> necessary.  Although I have made that 911 call for assistance in my
> >>>>>>> time, and was glad for the service.
>
> >>>>>>> My dad dropped bombs in the Pacific arena in WWII.  I can't imagine
> >>>>>>> being called into that kind of horror.
>
> >>>>>>> On Dec 18, 5:17 am, gabbydott<gabbyd...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> You are totally in style with your attitude, Allan. Retro style is selling
> >>>>>>>> like hell these days. I had to buy a snapback cap as a Christmas present
> >>>>>>>> for my son, the latest rapper style, as the shop owner explained to me. He
> >>>>>>>> still remembers how cool it was to have the hole in the back closed. And
> >>>>>>>> Noah will get the latest assassins of creed game from my sister. The
> >>>>>>>> likelihood that he'll have to deal with Americans from the California, New
> >>>>>>>> York, Florida areas is higher than having to kill bears in the mountains.
>
> >>>>>>>> It's smelly in here, I need to go out and get some fresh air.
> >>>>>>>> Am 18.12.2012 09:10 schrieb "Allan H"<allanh1...@gmail.com>:
>
> >>>>>>>>> I think you have a whole lot confused I have enjoyed trout fishing
> >>>>>>>>> since I was a child.  and I love eating fresh fried trout..
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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