Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

I understand what you are saying.. you do not have the problem with
assault weapons the US has.. Actually if it took effect would have to
sign over my gun collection the museum already has..(it keeps them
from being sold) the idea is to be able to tax guns by their
function.. the idea is to get control of assault weapons and bring
weapon hording to the close..

it is probably the most practical idea.. but it is just an idea..
right or wrong it is a possibility,, and even thought there will be
side effects.. it is better than presenting no solution..
Allan

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 9:04 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
> The idea of externalities is old in economics - classic cases would be
> global warming as a result of burning fossil fuels, or the poisoned
> rivers and farmland of those lucky enough to be near mineral
> extraction. We tend, in principle, to 'deal' with externalities
> through prohibition, taxation or civil litigation. Power gets in the
> way - so if you are a Burmese peasant farmer with a Chinese copper
> mine dumping its slag on your land ... we know the rest.
> In principle we could think about a soccer match in terms of the cost
> to put it on in externalities - who should pay for the policing,
> damage, nuisance, litter and so on perhaps up to the misery of
> anticipation of such for residents.
> I still shoot skeet (clays) and own a shotgun for this purpose. The
> licence fee can't even be paying the police bureaucracy costs. I'd
> have to give this up under my tax proposals. Rural economies were
> expected to collapse under our hunting ban (foxes). We seem somewhat
> less concerned to prevent the atrocities against children and the
> public than we are with foxes and badgers. I suspect we are confused
> on externalities - finding it easy to class welfare as an externality
> to business but not the financial system as such and a welfare system
> for the rich. The deep question is about free-riding.
>
> On 23 Dec, 18:47, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> it would be a new system.. one to be created,, you are fighting the
>> NRA (pain in the butt) this is the only way I can see that you can
>> avoid them saying you are interfering with the right to bear arms..
>> this way you have the right to own any gun only difference is you
>> have to pay taxes every year on that gun.. those that have great
>> hordes of weapons would have to pay an annual taxes that would
>> discourage this type of activity with out eliminating the right to
>> bear arms..
>>
>> as for the revenue as it would be a new revenue source how it is
>> split would be created..
>>
>> I can see the NRA saying we don't want to pay taxes getting them far
>> away from their comfort zone..
>> and you are right the time to strike is now.,, this idea is new?
>> but feasible and it would get control of assault style weapons via
>> taxes and the requirement to register all weapons you can not be told
>> that you are picking on one style of gun.. and part of the law could
>> include seizure of all un registered weapons..
>>
>> just a thought
>> Allan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I can't pretend to know anything about federal revenue streams, Alan, but do
>> > understand that whatever the system, including the current one or lack
>> > thereof, we all pay. The Sunday talking heads here all had much to say on
>> > the subject. This time something may be done before interest fades.
>>
>> > On Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:18:40 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>
>> >> I was thinking Molly is require the registration of all guns and
>> >> pistols and tax them based on the danger to society with say single
>> >> shot guns to the lowest rate to fully automatic and statistical
>> >> weapon.. you are welcome to own them they have to be registered and
>> >> taxes have to be paid yearly and that tax not be used to lessen other
>> >> taxes.. it would serve to lower the desirability and at the same time
>> >> raise revenue for other things like providing for police forces and
>> >> school protection,
>> >> Allan
>>
>> >> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Determining funding is always the best first step. Allowing facilities
>> >> > to
>> >> > opt in and out, based on their current security is essential. An
>> >> > estimated
>> >> > one third of US schools currently have armed security. I didn't think
>> >> > much
>> >> > of it knowing that the high school my kids attended had one full time,
>> >> > and
>> >> > sometimes more, local police on duty, along with other unarmed security.
>> >> > The guy that worked full time at the school was a friend, and felt
>> >> > himself
>> >> > fortunate to have the assignment. He was a kid at heart. A good cop
>> >> > too.
>>
>> >> > On Sunday, December 23, 2012 2:47:58 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>
>> >> >> ammunition also
>> >> >> Allan
>>
>> >> >> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Allan H <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > Hmm an annual tax on all guns might be nice and any not registered
>> >> >> > for
>> >> >> > taxation an immediate confiscation,,
>> >> >> > Allan
>>
>> >> >> > On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 5:39 AM, archytas <nwt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> I can't think of it at the moment James. In one amazingly stupid
>> >> >> >> episode in Northern Ireland our government went in for disarming -
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> disarmed the police. Ludicrous as this was, the 'Troubles' in the
>> >> >> >> late 60s/early 70s can rightly be described in part as a police
>> >> >> >> riot.
>> >> >> >> 20 years of horror there could have been averted had we been able to
>> >> >> >> take the realities to heart as Molly suggests. The NRA farce
>> >> >> >> reminded
>> >> >> >> me of our Parliament grilling managerial clowns from Google,
>> >> >> >> Starbucks
>> >> >> >> and Amazon on tax avoidance - with them all claiming the highest
>> >> >> >> ethical standards - none of them 'knew' any details of where the
>> >> >> >> offshore money is, how much there is and how a company selling
>> >> >> >> coffee
>> >> >> >> can manage not to pay corporation tax in the country they sell it
>> >> >> >> in.
>> >> >> >> The managers were clearly patsies put up to evade revealing the
>> >> >> >> details - the politicians such dupes they had got the wrong people
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> couldn't present an analysis of the books. The Starwucks twerp was
>> >> >> >> issuing propaganda on 'job creation' as though big companies like
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> don't really trash more jobs in the competition.
>>
>> >> >> >> How will we raise the money for more cops Moll? - we need more here
>> >> >> >> too for equally pressing reasons. A tax on the gun owners? In
>> >> >> >> economic terms we are in the realm of externalities - gun purchase
>> >> >> >> doesn't include payment for the problems they cause - not dealing
>> >> >> >> early with our crooks and 'mad' people transfers the cost to victims
>> >> >> >> and so on. I think we should be dealing with these issues by
>> >> >> >> expanding civil society.
>>
>> >> >> >> On 23 Dec, 01:55, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> The best explanation I heard was the spokesperson who issued that
>> >> >> >>> tirade
>> >> >> >>> on Friday was a patsy, at best hiding behind the shield of popular
>> >> >> >>> opinion of the NRA servicing the lunatic fringe, while doing untold
>> >> >> >>> damage to the members they are supposed to represent (of which,
>> >> >> >>> opinion
>> >> >> >>> polls appear not to be mostly lunatics, nor in agreement with NRA
>> >> >> >>> policy
>> >> >> >>> positions), is in fact on the take from special industry interests,
>> >> >> >>> and
>> >> >> >>> at worst all-of-the-above without an ounce of reservation or
>> >> >> >>> conscience
>> >> >> >>> other than to lobbying interests. Triple agent theories aren't
>> >> >> >>> worth
>> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >>> energy, greed and ignorance sums up DC nicely indiscriminately IMO.
>> >> >> >>> Who
>> >> >> >>> would be in the best position to rile up fear among large
>> >> >> >>> populations
>> >> >> >>> and get the gov't to move it's pieces in line, who stands the most
>> >> >> >>> to
>> >> >> >>> gain? Does a rhetorical question require a question mark?
>>
>> >> >> >>> Shame indeed Molly. This guy is probably destined to get canned
>> >> >> >>> within
>> >> >> >>> a
>> >> >> >>> year, and leave with a little severance bonus and a nice handful of
>> >> >> >>> chips to play in the next round of dupe the morons. Organized crime
>> >> >> >>> has
>> >> >> >>> a nasty word for it I can't remember, lend me a hand Archy?
>>
>> >> >> >>> On 12/22/2012 8:02 AM, Molly wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>> > I agree, Alan. there are issues with types of guns, number of
>> >> >> >>> > guns,
>> >> >> >>> > guns accessible to folks with documented mental instability.
>> >> >> >>> > Right
>> >> >> >>> > to
>> >> >> >>> > bear arms is important. Right to own arsenals is another story.
>> >> >> >>> > As
>> >> >> >>> > is right to carry into places that make others vulnerable because
>> >> >> >>> > of
>> >> >> >>> > it. The NRA isn't far off, I think, on its position that if
>> >> >> >>> > schools,
>> >> >> >>> > hospitals, stadiums etc need armed police then they should have
>> >> >> >>> > them,
>> >> >> >>> > instead of giving everyone who walks in the building the right to
>> >> >> >>> > carry. However, the NRA, as usual, is using the tragedy to push
>> >> >> >>> > their
>> >> >> >>> > agenda, and have the money to do it. I have always found this
>> >> >> >>> > unconscionable. Will never forget one of their political campaign
>> >> >> >>> > flyers that had a picture of the US President in the sight of a
>> >> >> >>> > gun.
>> >> >> >>> > Unacceptable.
>>
>> >> >> >>> > On Dec 22, 3:54 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >> if the adults were running toward the killer then they must be
>> >> >> >>> >> kretes
>> >> >> >>> >> because hero fight like kretes.. and that is what they truly
>> >> >> >>> >> are
>> >> >> >>> >> not
>> >> >> >>> >> some one putting their own life first and hiding away.. No one
>> >> >> >>> >> has
>> >> >> >>> >> any business with assault rifles including all military..all
>> >> >> >>> >> military
>> >> >> >>> >> world wide.
>> >> >> >>> >> Allan
>>
>> >> >> >>> >> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 1:23 AM, Don Johnson<daj...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >>> The truth is we can't protect against insanity. We can't do it
>> >> >> >>> >>> against
>> >> >> >>> >>> crazed Muslims chasing 70 virgins in Paradise and we can't do
>> >> >> >>> >>> it
>> >> >> >>> >>> from
>> >> >> >>> >>> unsocialized mentally disturbed malcontents. We meaning society
>> >> >> >>> >>> as
>> >> >> >>> >>> a
>> >> >> >>> >>> whole of course. Without the guns perhaps this young man would
>> >> >> >>> >>> have
>> >> >> >>> >>> chosen a bomb or a fire or sarin gas as an outlet for his rage.
>> >> >> >>> >>> More
>> >> >> >>> >>> laws will have zero effect on this kind of tragedy. There was
>> >> >> >>> >>> an
>> >> >> >>> >>> assault rifle ban in '94 that lasted 10 years and had no effect
>> >> >> >>> >>> whatsoever on gun violence.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >>> Could this have been prevented? Well sure. Any number of things
>> >> >> >>> >>> could
>> >> >> >>> >>> have been done differently to avoid what happened and those
>> >> >> >>> >>> survivors
>> >> >> >>> >>> familiar with the situation that led up to the tragedy will
>> >> >> >>> >>> likely
>> >> >> >>> >>> destroy themselves thinking "what if." Life is full of "what
>> >> >> >>> >>> ifs."
>> >> >> >>> >>> I
>> >> >> >>> >>> am thinking particularly of the father of the assassin here. No
>> >> >> >>> >>> sane
>> >> >> >>> >>> parent could avoid feeling culpable here. The suffering around
>> >> >> >>> >>> this
>> >> >> >>> >>> shooting is unimaginable to me.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >>> My understanding is that most of the adults killed were running
>> >> >> >>> >>> TOWARDS the killer when they were shot down. They must have
>> >> >> >>> >>> known
>> >> >> >>> >>> they
>> >> >> >>> >>> would be killed but it may
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
>
> --
>
>
>



--
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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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