It has long been my reported view that all holy scripture contains some essence of the truth. It has become cloudy and man has mucked around with it for his own ends.
So perhaps there is a place to start? As far as you can find the original scripture and then try to interpret it without bias or concious need for what ever it is you find yourself needing at that moment in time, heh perhaps?
On Saturday, 15 December 2012 07:34:14 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
-- On Saturday, 15 December 2012 07:34:14 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
My personal form of beliefs were declared a heresy in the mid to late
3rd century,, probably because people have trouble seeing salvation
in concepts other than their own.. I have been reading the gospel
of buddha very interesting the original teachings in my opinion spot
on many of which are reflected in the teachings of Jesus.. well
either he went there and studied for a period of time or he was
teaching universal truths known through out the spiritual realm..
One of the most interesting points I seem in this book is it clearly
shows people changing or adding to concepts to fit their needs. this
is both funny and sad as it is saying many of the teachers seem to do
the exact same thing.. and this includes myself.. often time
discussing great ideas and concepts that in reality are of little
importance in terms of salvation of the soul.. Is this being done to
appear to make myself more important than I really am?
Allan
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 7:52 AM, James <ashk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lee after checking some history briefly my question sounds a bit, well,
> daft. It is embarrassing that I overlooked what looks to me like an humble
> and honorable spiritual pursuit in a world that drives many to extremes
> especially under repeated aggression and repression and to come out with
> strength and integrity. I'm still open to comment though. :-)
>
>
>
> On 12/14/2012 8:29 PM, James wrote:
>>
>> At last count I think there were thousands of identified christian
>> sects, probably mostly minor revisions, but that does allow for a bit of
>> variation. A history of assimilation sounds like a likely sourc, I know
>> there is a perfect word for it (searching memory). And there are the
>> gnostics to consider, myself I have seen enough variation on the schools
>> of thought to consider it a potentially dynamic religion depending on
>> the person.
>>
>> Lee, I don't really know anything about Sikhism, is there something
>> really cool about it you could share, maybe what sets it apart in your
>> view?
>>
>> On 12/14/2012 6:14 PM, Allan H wrote:
>>>
>>> Oddly Lee christianity won't be dying just sluffing off the infected
>>> sick and infected parts.
>>> Allan
>>>
>>> Air gunner full of hot air ready to release it quickly
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2012 10:51 PM, "Lee Douglas" <leerev...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:leerev...@gmail.com >> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ohh I don't know about arrogant Allan. I think it's more like they
>>> have painted themselves into a corner. You can't change the word of
>>> God (read bible) so you must bend it and manipulate it to mean what
>>> you say it means. Unless of course you have the power to change it
>>> like our very own King James or that reprobate Constantine. Now of
>>> course if we get a liberal Pope, perhaps one day, but I really do
>>> think that the death knell for Christianity has started to sound,
>>> unless they move quickly.
>>>
>>> In other news I saw a report on the news the other day that said
>>> those in the UK who proclaim no religious faith now stands at 25%
>>> that is a 10% increase since last year. Honestly although a lot of
>>> us here proclaim membership of the Anglican church, I think a great
>>> deal of it is lip service, and once those above my generation start
>>> to die out, we'll see this % number increase.
>>>
>>> On Friday, 7 December 2012 20:02:12 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>>
>>> Not at all female theology has been around since the start.. I
>>> am not
>>> christian .. you see administration as a change in theology
>>> .When
>>> you start correcting the errors christianity has made in the past.
>>> but that would take an actual evolution in beliefs rather than
>>> administrative changes.. but christianity is far to arrogant to do
>>> that.. they have a problem saying they made a mistake.
>>>
>>> shopping on sunday is an administrative type change..
>>> Allan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Lee Douglas
>>> <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Haha whatever gave you that impression Allan?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Really though you don't think that female priests represent a
>>> change in
>>> > theology? I know both gay men and gay woman who are preists,
>>> this is known
>>> > and excepted in the Anglican church. I don't know one
>>> Christian who keeps
>>> > the sabath, rather than do a spot of shopping, do you?
>>> >
>>> > On Friday, 7 December 2012 14:01:48 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I know you dis agree .. birth control and woman bishops
>>> effectively no
>>> >> more than administration. How has those events changing the
>>> theology? They
>>> >> still strickly following the rules unchanged since early
>>> centuries
>>> >> Allan
>>> >>
>>> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>>> >>
>>> >> On Dec 7, 2012 1:35 PM, "Lee Douglas" <leerev...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> You are joking right Allan?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The changes are only in administration? So Catholics the
>>> world over are
>>> >>> not using contraception in spite of what the pope says? No
>>> such change I
>>> >>> think is driven and will be further driven by the faiths
>>> followers more than
>>> >>> it's leaders. When the new Arch Bishop of Canterbury
>>> leaves his new post
>>> >>> any changes that he has affected will still be there, one
>>> day woman Bishops
>>> >>> will be common place, despite any changes in administration.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Besides if you think of religous ideas in the same way as
>>> any and all
>>> >>> other ideas, then it is clear to see that such ideas will
>>> evolve or die. We
>>> >>> no longer belive that the Earth is the center of the
>>> universe, that right
>>> >>> there is a dead religous idea. Yet Catholosism is still
>>> very much with us,
>>> >>> and that right there is an example of evolotion of the idea
>>> rather than the
>>> >>> admisistration.
>>> >>> On Friday, 7 December 2012 11:40:07 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> The changes are only in administration,, to me that is not
>>> evolutionary
>>> >>>> type change
>>> >>>> Allan
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Dec 7, 2012 11:51 AM, "Lee Douglas"
>>> <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Hahah maybey, maybe. I am though the eternal optimist so
>>> I see things
>>> >>>>> differantly.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The Anglican church in particular are making some good
>>> moves.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> There are though only two things I wish to comment on at
>>> this momnet.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> My career in IT support thus far informs me that people
>>> do seem to have
>>> >>>>> an inbuilt resistance to change, and ultimatly the
>>> Christian church in
>>> >>>>> particular but of course all other dogmatic religions
>>> need to change or they
>>> >>>>> risk dieing out.
>>> >>>>> On Friday, 7 December 2012 10:02:37 UTC, Allan Heretic
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> From what I have seen it does evolve.. it seems mostly
>>> in the
>>> >>>>>> negative directions.. probably because of greed and a
>>> desire to
>>> >>>>>> control rather than spirituality.. there are exceptions
>>> but they are
>>> >>>>>> rare.
>>> >>>>>> Allan
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Lee Douglas
>>> <leerev...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> > And in truth Allan religion does evolove, perhaps
>>> slowly but evolove
>>> >>>>>> > it
>>> >>>>>> > does.
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>> > On Thursday, 6 December 2012 19:21:35 UTC, Allan
>>> Heretic wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> I think that religion should evolve..just like the
>>> rest of the
>>> >>>>>> >> universe.. when the evolution stops it begins to
>>> die.. a good
>>> >>>>>> >> example
>>> >>>>>> >> of dead beliefs is those our fundamentalist friend is
>>> presenting.
>>> >>>>>> >> Recite the magickal incantation and and every thing
>>> will be all
>>> >>>>>> >> right.. this statement to me is one of a dead faith'
>>> >>>>>> >> Allan
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 6:31 PM, archytas
>>> <nwt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> > Biology is describing a 'co-evolution arms race'.
>>> Religious
>>> >>>>>> >> > notions
>>> >>>>>> >> > of the eternal have a lot in common with Popper's
>>> 'World 3' and
>>> >>>>>> >> > what
>>> >>>>>> >> > we can regard as 'objective' and 'factual' I'm as
>>> sure as you
>>> >>>>>> >> > about
>>> >>>>>> >> > the 'meanness' you often describe and believe the
>>> way through it,
>>> >>>>>> >> > past
>>> >>>>>> >> > it, whatever - is spiritual - maybe a kind of dawning.
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> > There's a joke in the new Batman film (other 2
>>> hours plus
>>> >>>>>> >> > rubbish) -
>>> >>>>>> >> > when the bad guys raid the stock exchange a trader
>>> says there is
>>> >>>>>> >> > no
>>> >>>>>> >> > money there for them to steal - the answer is that
>>> there must be
>>> >>>>>> >> > -
>>> >>>>>> >> > otherwise the traders wouldn't be there. I think
>>> economics is
>>> >>>>>> >> > largely
>>> >>>>>> >> > a fetish designed around libidinal and domination
>>> 'needs' - but
>>> >>>>>> >> > even
>>> >>>>>> >> > organised religion becomes such. My guess is we
>>> need a spiritual
>>> >>>>>> >> > democracy and finance is set against this forcing
>>> us into
>>> >>>>>> >> > compliance
>>> >>>>>> >> > with its control fraud much as many routinely bend
>>> their knees in
>>> >>>>>> >> > religious observance. Science, admittedly as
>>> reliably as a
>>> >>>>>> >> > double-
>>> >>>>>> >> > glazing salesman, is suggesting human-biological
>>> intelligence is
>>> >>>>>> >> > already giving way to more machine-substrates that
>>> offer quasi-
>>> >>>>>> >> > immortality and intellect beyond a singularity we
>>> can hardly
>>> >>>>>> >> > imagine.
>>> >>>>>> >> > In my science fiction dreaming we may discover the
>>> alien life on
>>> >>>>>> >> > Earth
>>> >>>>>> >> > is actually ours and we have only been used by
>>> another, more
>>> >>>>>> >> > worthy
>>> >>>>>> >> > consciousness..
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> > On 6 Dec, 12:26, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> Many things are best guesses.. are the foundation
>>> to many
>>> >>>>>> >> >> things along
>>> >>>>>> >> >> what has been observed .. and there is nothing
>>> wrong with that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> .. many
>>> >>>>>> >> >> ideas have evolved from the instinct for survival
>>> .. from that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> has come
>>> >>>>>> >> >> selfishness which has lead to the excessive
>>> uncaring greed we
>>> >>>>>> >> >> see
>>> >>>>>> >> >> today...
>>> >>>>>> >> >> sacrificing the other ant.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> Allan
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>>> >>>>>> >> >> On Dec 6, 2012 11:09 AM, "archytas"
>>> <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > Sounds like something Pontius Pilate might have
>>> used.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > I guess that David Deutsch and constructor
>>> theory tries to get
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > back
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > reminding science about its root guesses Allan.
>>> I take from
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > 'Spartacus Ants' sacrificing themselves to
>>> destroy slaver ants
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > pre-human biology 'knows' something of survival
>>> instinct.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > Descartes had it that until we could get to a
>>> point of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > re-evaluating
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > against his radical doubt one had to trust in a
>>> beneficent
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > god.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > Whilst we can criticize his system, I think
>>> anti-religious
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > science
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > misses the beat on issues of how we can live
>>> until we know
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > more. The
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > spiritual thus has its place. There is plenty to
>>> avoid in its
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > history
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > of control fraud, abuse, sexism and war crimes -
>>> but plenty to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > learn
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > in terms of grace and fellowship.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > On 6 Dec, 08:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > it is not for cleaning hands ,, it just gets
>>> rid of smell
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > you
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > can not get rid of no matter how much you
>>> wash.. you just
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > wash
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > after
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > youor hands are clean,, then the smell is gone.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > Allan
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:27 PM, gabbydott
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > Hm, I have never thought of using a steel
>>> soap bar for
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > cleaning
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > my
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > hands. I
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > use it occasionally for my pots and pans.
>>> And for the more
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > difficult
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > dirt on
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > my hands I use a pumice stone or lemon. And
>>> more and more
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > often I
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > wear
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > gloves or buy frozen and precut garlic and
>>> onion. But
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > thanks for
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > tip.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > I'm sure that one day I'll make use of it.
>>> Why not steel
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > instead
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > stone,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > you're right.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54:42 PM
>>> UTC+1, Allan
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > Heretic
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> Well actually Gabby I have this stainless
>>> steel soap bar
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> used
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> for
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> getting rid of ordure off your hands
>>> things like onion,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> Garlic
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> ,,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> any strong ordure ,, just tried it on the
>>> epoxy smell
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> left
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> over from
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> fixing my maxi egg coddler.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> now one of the greatest mysteries of the
>>> universe,, how
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> does it
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> work?
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> Allan
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:38 PM, gabbydott
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> <gabb...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > The pointlessness of the points'
>>> business. Like Lee, I
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > find
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > the God
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > concept
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > much more to the point. :)
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > I don't follow Lee's sequencing model -
>>> first spirit,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > then
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > matter -
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > though.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > This sounds very man-made to me. ;)
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > As for the storytelling aspect, yes, the
>>> Chronos story
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > is much
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > more
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > vivid
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > than the "God created (x) and saw it was
>>> good" story.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > That's
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > true.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > But
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > children are less likely to have bad
>>> dreams at night.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > Which is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > really
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > good.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > Sorry, Allan, I got carried away. What
>>> were you talking
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > about?
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> > 2012/12/4 Allan H <allan...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> a series of creation is at best a wild
>>> guess with no
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> supporting
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> evidence..
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> Allan
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> <123...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > You can pinpoint the beginning of this
>>> universe but
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > not
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > that of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > Creation with its series of universes.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Allan H
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> > <allan...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> That is not true the beginning can
>>> be pretty much
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> pinpointed
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > .. as
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> for
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> parallel universes that is just a
>>> wild guess with
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> nothing
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > support
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> other than it sounds good. There is
>>> more evidence
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> supporting
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> spiritual
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> realm than parallel universes
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> Allan
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Dec 4, 2012 2:26 PM, "RP Singh"
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> <123...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> In my view there is no beginning to
>>> creation.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> There is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > beginning
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> end to universes There are infinite
>>> no. of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> universes in
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > parallel
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> continuously many universes are
>>> being born and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> many are
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> dying
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > ,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> but
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> Creation which includes infinite
>>> universes in
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> eternal
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> time ,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > just
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> like
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> the Spirit, is without beginning and
>>> without end.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> The
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > difference is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> that the nature of creation is
>>> dualistic and the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> Spirit
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> non-dual.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Lee
>>> Douglas <
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > leerev...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Hello Andrew,
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Heh I can envisage many things,
>>> but alas many of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > them
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > are not
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > true.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > I
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > distinguish between two things,
>>> matter and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > spirit.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Mattter
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > all
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > physical, which includes physical
>>> 'matter' and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > also
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > energy.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > To
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > me
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > there
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > no paradox of who created the
>>> creator. Before
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > begining
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > there
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > was
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > only
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > God, God in spirit, and God
>>> created the creation
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > out of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > spirt
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > God.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > That is all matter comes from spirit.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > On Friday, 30 November 2012
>>> 18:32:43 UTC, andrew
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > vecsey
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Lee, I can see where all matter
>>> has to have an
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> energy
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > component
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> it
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> because matter is manifested as
>>> atoms which
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> have
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> motion in
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > them.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> But I
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> could
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> also envision pure motion without
>>> involving any
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > atoms...like a
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> vibration in
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> the fabric of space,
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> On Friday, November 30, 2012
>>> 5:53:26 PM UTC+1,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Lee
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Douglas
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> Heh except of course that when
>>> it comes right
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> down to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > it.energy
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> matter
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> and matter is energy.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> On Friday, 30 November 2012
>>> 11:22:14 UTC,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> andrew
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> vecsey
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> The paradoxical dilemma of who
>>> created the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> creator
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> can be
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> circumnavigated by the
>>> possibility that the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> original
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > creator
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> was
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> not
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> matter,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> but energy. Just like thinking
>>> of anything is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> much
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> faster
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> much
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> easier
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> than building it, it becomes
>>> conceivable that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> energy
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > patterns
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> could
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> have
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> evolved in a random chance way
>>> and finely
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> tuned by
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > selective
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> processes to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> reach intelligence similar to
>>> how most
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> scientists
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> believe
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> patterns of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms and molecules evolved to
>>> form
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> intelligent
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> life.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> Energy patterns could have
>>> evolved to a point
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> they
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> manipulated
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms to desired patterns and
>>> forms to code
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > information
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> required
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> for
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> life and to allow them to
>>> evolve on their own
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> complex
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> intelligent
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> beings
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> able to wonder at and
>>> eventually to solve the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> riddle
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > where
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> they
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> came
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> from, where they are going and
>>> why they are
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> alive.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > Meaning and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> purpose could
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> then be given to our fleeting
>>> moment of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> existence.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> On Thursday, November 29, 2012
>>> 7:55:05 PM
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> UTC+1,
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> archytas
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> ....... All we have in
>>> respect of this is
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> to posit
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation, begging the question
>>> of what
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> created that
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> in an
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> infinite
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> regress. .....We might get to an
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> intelligent state
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> in
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > which
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> myths are replaced by
>>> something more
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> plausible and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> Truth
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> comes
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> closer.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> On 29 Nov, 01:41, RP Singh
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> <123...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > Neil , even after
>>> re-transposition how
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > long could
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > brain
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > live
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > --1000 years , 10000years or
>>> maybe as long
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > as the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > universe
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ,but
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ultimately it will die or be
>>> destroyed at
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the end
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > -
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > time of
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > universe. What survives is
>>> the Truth
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > behind life
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > and
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > nothing
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > else.
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 3:33
>>> AM, archytas
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > <nwte...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > What survives is the gene
>>> - subject to
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > mutations
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > etc. We
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > already
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > 'Borg' in the sense of mass
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > assimilation.
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > One's mind
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > be
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > transposed to another
>>> substrate (nearish
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > future) -
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > our
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > bodies
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > currently replaced every 5
>>> years or so-
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > and the
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > new
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > substrate
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could
>>> >>>>>> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > have nanobots that would
>>> allow minds to
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> ...
>>> >>>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> >> read more »
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> > --
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> --
>>> >>>>>> >> (
>>> >>>>>> >> )
>>> >>>>>> >> |_D Allan
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>> > --
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> (
>>> >>>>>> )
>>> >>>>>> |_D Allan
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> (
>>> )
>>> |_D Allan
>>>
>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>>>
>>> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
I am a Natural Airgunner -
Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
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