Re: Mind's Eye The language of thinking

I often have no internal language when I think, at least in the sense
it's silent. My general supposition on language is we have to do a
lot of work on it to think with what's really there. Dance doesn't
get to me much (other than related to the trouser canoe) and much
literature and film just bores me with predictable formula and I'd say
the same on most current affairs, news and politics. I suspect many
people think with the ready to hand and never know any critical
thought languages.

On Jan 26, 7:48 pm, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps thinking can be divided into 2 kinds; emotional and logical.
> Emotional thinking includes imagining, fantasizing and remembering. Logical
> thinking includes pondering, contemplating, reasoning, problem solving,
> analyzing, planning, desiring, admiring, and criticizing. I personally need
> the language of monologue (talking to myself) for the logical type of
> thinking only. For the emotional type of thinking, I find feeling is
> enough. For a computer, feelings are algorithms that are programed.
> Programmed emotions are as easy to see thru them as faked emotions of
> humans are.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:51:14 PM UTC+1, archytas wrote:
>
> > If one tries to think in logic one first translates ordinary language
> > in which even simple sentences are ambiguous - memories occur in
> > thinking and these are often inaccurate.  To get machines 'thinking'
> > we have to change ordinary language into their logic (language).  Is
> > thought done in language at all?
>
> > On Jan 11, 5:48 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Why do only fools and horses work?  Max sometimes has that look of
> > > love in his eye.  Not sure I'd have been brave enough to dance with
> > > wolves.
>
> > > There are tribes that hardly talk - most of the communication is sign
> > > (off Equatorial Guinea somewhere).  E = mc2 is not represented like
> > > this in my head.  I don't see anything when I 'visualise' in maths or
> > > do spatial reasoning.  Some maths savants report seeing numbers and
> > > sums in shapes.  Chimps are quicker at some maths than humans.  I can
> > > wade through 100s of pages of academic and student work without
> > > spotting any evidence of thought!
>
> > > On Jan 11, 1:51 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Humanity has herdlike qualities and new ideas or approaches are not
> > > > easily accepted- same old grazing on old ideas and methods. It is also
> > > > a trait of activities beyond economics and government as history and
> > > > culture illustrate over and over again. You are also making the
> > > > establishment nervous so they will quash or silence.
>
> > > > Now the communication between dog and human is interesting-
> > > > unconditional love and loyalty. Or have we enslaved pets by
> > > > domesticating them and making them thoroughly dependent?
>
> > > > On Jan 10, 7:14 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Thinking is accompanied by some kind of 'brain voice' in my head -
> > > > > this is sort of a dialogue in monologue and it gets obsessive.  If I
> > > > > manage to switch off and sleep or do something that demands
> > attention
> > > > > so the internal voice stops, I find I may have moved on past
> > > > > barriers.
>
> > > > > There is a public language of thinking that is highly restrictive
> > and
> > > > > various rules on how thinking can be presented through gatekeeping
> > > > > activities.  Much 'thought' seems based on copying and in my areas
> > of
> > > > > current study (organisation theory and economics) it's pretty clear
> > we
> > > > > keep copying mistakes.
>
> > > > > On Jan 10, 1:44 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Right. That's aiming straight at the question immanent functional
> > > > > > orientation, not only solving the cui bono question.
>
> > > > > > 2013/1/10 rigs <rigs...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > > > I was thinking more about this though it's only a personal
> > opinion;
> > > > > > > though humans share universal behaviors, I am not sure many
> > qualify as
> > > > > > > languages of thinking. Maybe we need a definition? One could be
> > misled
> > > > > > > easily enough- perhaps a waddle-walk means a dance or an
> > invitation,
> > > > > > > etc. And technology and science also have their languages-
> > somewhat
> > > > > > > like Latin of the Middle Ages, in a way.
>
> > > > > > > On Jan 6, 9:41 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > This is indeed a very, very complex topic worth discussing and
> > > > > > > simplifying.
> > > > > > > > Help me understand what you are aiming at by telling me
> > whether music and
> > > > > > > > dance would also account for languages of thinking. Thanks.
>
> > > > > > > > 2013/1/6 andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > > > > > I have written a new chapter to my "Think Park - A Journey
> > thru space
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > time" publication/video that made me think more about
> > thinking.
> > > > > > > Whenever I
> > > > > > > > > think, I seem to be talking to myself, I can think about
> > something in
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > memory by imagining and reliving sensations I remember, but
> > whenever I
> > > > > > > > > think about those memories, I ultimately revert to talking
> > to my self
> > > > > > > (up
> > > > > > > > > to now, fortunately silently). Do others in this group of
> > thinkers
> > > > > > > have the
> > > > > > > > > same experience? If yes, why do you think that it is like
> > that? If
> > > > > > > not, how
> > > > > > > > > do you manage to think without mentally talking it out? The
> > excerpt of
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > new chapter that started me thinking about this line of
> > thought is
> > > > > > > below:
>
> > > > > > > > > "Before men could talk, they groaned and grunted.  Just like
> > with
> > > > > > > crying
> > > > > > > > > and laughing, it was sometimes difficult to tell the
> > difference between
> > > > > > > > > displays of sorrow and joy, or pain and pleasure.  At the 60
> > meter
> > > > > > > point
> > > > > > > > > from the start of the think park, about 18,000 years ago,
> > man started
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > use *words* to display his emotions. Words helped man to
> > think and
> > > > > > > > > enabled him to articulate and share his inner most thoughts.
> >  *Pictures
> > > > > > > > > and written words* enabled his thoughts and his knowledge to
> > be stored
> > > > > > > > > for later contemplation and to be scattered like seed to
> > grow.  This
> > > > > > > > > cultivation, communication and sharing of thoughts,
> > knowledge and
> > > > > > > > > experience resulted in the growth of *agriculture* that
> > enabled *
> > > > > > > > > civilizations* to flourish."
>
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