Re: Mind's Eye Re: A Call To Democratic Arms?

The function of mayonnaise is to teach us about negative vacuum energy
Gabby! What the banksters are doing is controlling a global wage/food/
energy arbitrage that should be in local hands (ours). The Pirates
had/have something going - but even 'socialist' France has boots on
the ground - even if we had political revolution how would we deal
with the inevitable foreign policy junk when whoever represents us has
the military and secret services in their ears suggesting the policies
we want will lead to Islamic-Chinese empires that will come looking
for us?

On 20 Jan, 03:30, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I say something like 'you have never heard a true word about
> management development' I broadly know what I mean.  Some ass might
> point out this is an example of the liar's paradox (presumably if you
> have never heard a true word on the subject that includes mine) - but
> I could explain my shorthand.  We might walk into the scrotty pub I
> occasionally frequent and order 'vodka martinis, shaken not stirred' -
> clearly a comment on the pub not an order.  Stuff like this makes
> programming machines difficult - though machines are getting smarter
> these days.
>
> If we wanted to argue Allan's case we could find a lot of academic
> support (Bill Black is the most accessible) - from biology,
> anthropology, economics, history and social theory.  The 'voter
> machine' is not programmed with this material - I struggle to think of
> much film, television or literature based in the science I know and
> our kids get to university full of myths (Crusader in the west, Jihad
> in the middle east - etc.).  The business books I'm supposed to teach
> from all treat capital as neutral and demand to teach corporate fraud
> is very limited - some students see it as a how to module.  There are
> questions abut how to get the voting machine to process the argument
> and even make the argument available.
>
> On Jan 19, 10:45 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
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> > The only way I see an honest government is strictly control in
> > influence of corporations and spin doctors with all of their dealings
> > involving government being recorded both video and audio with these
> > being open to public scrutiny,, not just special commissions,,  Also
> > corporation presidents with the board of directors need to serve
> > prison sentences when their companies break the law,, once convicted
> > no longer be able to act as advisers or hold the offices of
> > corporations.. ending all corporations for lawyers so the can no
> > longer hide..
> > the enforcement of corporate need to be brought into effect instead of
> > letting them slide.
> > nasty huh...
> > Allan
>
> > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 9:57 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > We call ourselves democracies - the classic was perhaps the DDR (East
> > > Germany), famous for strange athletes, Stasi and the Trabant.  But
> > > shouldn't we expect the Doublespeak Allan?  Most of us don't really
> > > want to be involved in politics - it's a bit like running the coffee
> > > fund in a school common room.  Like Gabby I tend to vote Green - but
> > > this is really about registering my protest that the main parties are
> > > now scum.  We could, as Andrew suggested, have a much less
> > > representative politics and make more decisions ourselves.  In the UK
> > > we should already have decentralised from London and become much more
> > > electronic in base.  It must be very easy for 'foreign powers' to
> > > infiltrate our main political parties and they are all stacked out
> > > with highly suspicious suit horses.  There has long been no one for me
> > > to vote for.  We need revolutionary ideas about the system and I don't
> > > mean bombs, capes, dubious mustaches and a "temporary" dictatorship of
> > > the proles.  This is why I think radical change in our understanding
> > > and then technology of argument might help.  You astutely note we
> > > don't have any real democracies - but were earlier clinging to the
> > > notion of voting involving argument - I'm saying that ain't 'real'
> > > either.
>
> > > On 19 Jan, 07:52, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> I don't see how you can call any government a democracy .. the USA is
> > >> a republic   and I do not see how you can call any government when
> > >> leadership keep palling around with the wealth chasing the golden
> > >> calf.
> > >> Allan
>
> > >> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:21 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > Computing has brought about changes in maths on grounds of speed in
> > >> > calculation that humans can't achieve in lifetimes - patterns appear
> > >> > in massive iterations we simply don't have time to do.  I don't have
> > >> > much problem with this if, say, it lets us devise flight plans to
> > >> > Mars.  They are increasingly used to have information first, perhaps
> > >> > like someone using a telescope to spot which ship is coming home in
> > >> > order to unload what stock of goods one has while prices are still
> > >> > high before its goods are docked.  I doubt the entire use of the
> > >> > technology in economics.  In some areas of science we are not sure
> > >> > what the computers are telling us and they appear to be "thinking".I
> > >> > have taught many people to drive spreadsheets and databases - though
> > >> > few really learn to manipulate new questions into them or design
> > >> > useful reporting from them.
> > >> > Rigs hits one of the nails of democracy on the head and Andrew drives
> > >> > in another.  Unlike Gabby I tend to view faith as a weakness.  The
> > >> > vinegar and oil approach is probably cast as incommensurability in
> > >> > philosophy - though combined as salad dressing Andrew's meat is my
> > >> > poison.  I suspect much allegedly incommensurate is merely
> > >> > incompatible due to definition.  Chemists could no doubt produce a
> > >> > solution with both oil and vinegar in it.  Wiles' solution to Fermat's
> > >> > last theorem bridges modular and elliptic equations and Sneed and
> > >> > Ludwig have used set theory to show compatibility between older and
> > >> > modern physics (scientists mostly believed this anyway).
>
> > >> > The question is whether there is something we can apply to the sad
> > >> > state of democracy that keeps the egalitarianism better than our very
> > >> > peculiar voting systems.  If we had an "argument machine" we might be
> > >> > able t get past Crusade/Jihad, Sunni/Shia, Catholic/Protestant, Hindi/
> > >> > Muslim and so on - and get into what is common exploitation on all
> > >> > sides - the human aspects rigs points out - and to change to the more
> > >> > positive ones.  I may even share (something like) Gabby's
> > >> > 'frustration' with agnostics - though an explication of this n both
> > >> > sides would be long.
>
> > >> > This is tough territory - and very unlike the spiv Blair uttering
> > >> > 'education, education, education' (something I first heard in East
> > >> > Germany) and the ease with which we are gulled by such blandishments
> > >> > with no thought of how we can actually create graduate jobs 50:50 and
> > >> > what such a society would be.  We need to know more about what buttons
> > >> > the likes of Blair and adverts push.  I suspect part of the answer
> > >> > would be the creation of technology to support a level playing field -
> > >> > but as I write this I'm fairly sure we are being warmed up for war
> > >> > (it's a bit like Jung's dream).
>
> > >> > On Jan 18, 11:11 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> Vinegar and oil are prime reasons I don't order salad when out - hate
> > >> >> them both!  I agree entirely with Gabby on "political argument" and
> > >> >> would say in addition academic argument can be as bad and the majority
> > >> >> of it is.  When asked most people say they vote on the economy - when
> > >> >> further asked what the economy is they are clueless.  One of us at
> > >> >> least will need a steel claw to make a success of Al's lair and our
> > >> >> 'freedom through world domination' scheme.
>
> > >> >> On Jan 18, 3:46 pm, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > Faith and reason, like vinegar and oil (my favorite salad dressing) ,go
> > >> >> > together and complement each other really well. Like the bible teaches, the
> > >> >> > knowledge of good and evil or technology is a double edged sword. You can
> > >> >> > not have one without the other. Like playing with matches, it is not
> > >> >> > recommended for children. As for teaching morals, I do not think it can be
> > >> >> > taught by teachers. Education and democracy if used morally can and does
> > >> >> > fill empty bellies.I agree with you Rigs about democracy. Democracy as we
> > >> >> > have it in all democratic countries (except Switzerland) lasts only for a
> > >> >> > day every 4 or 5 years when we elect representatives with meaningless
> > >> >> > promises to represent us.
>
> > >> >> > On Friday, January 18, 2013 12:54:01 PM UTC+1, rigs wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > Faith and Reason are like vinegar and oil. The Enlightenment has
> > >> >> > > brought us hence- the new Dark Ages? Technology is not a solution
> > >> >> > > because it can be corrupted. I have much in common with a Roman matron
> > >> >> > > of the 4th C. as I watch/read of the new barbarians. My modern
> > >> >> > > conveniences are simply mechanical slaves. It does little good to
> > >> >> > > teach ethics/morals when other parts of our supposed united world are
> > >> >> > > not in sync. Education/democracy will not fill an empty belly or
> > >> >> > > replenish wasted croplands and raw materials. Throwing money at
> > >> >> > > unstable countries will not rescue us or them (Egypt) nor will
> > >> >> > > allowing disasters to take their course win us friends (Syria).
> > >> >> > > Democracy has become a bloated centralized authority so the political
> > >> >> > > differences are meaningless. The patterns of human history have
> > >> >> > > changed very little, unfortunately- it still remains about greed,
> > >> >> > > power and hubris.
>
> > >> >> > > On Jan 17, 7:59 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> > > > Kaggle is also up and running, apparently producing better than expert
> > >> >> > > > results from data crunching.  The project, whether a Tower of Babel
> > >> >> > > > confronting god or not, is underway.
>
> > >> >> > > > On Jan 18, 12:22 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > > > At last we discover the lair from which you intend to launch 'Dr No'
> > >> >> > > > > plans Al!
>
> > >> >> > > > > One can argue that democracy already
>
> ...
>
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