Re: Mind's Eye Re: the majority opinion

Strangely enough Lee I do experience that! Brian Clough should have
been England manager! One finds a lot of arrogant ignorance in
classrooms and a lot of stereotyping by teachers and students.
Teaching is often a weird experience and difficult to drop from the
system - something pretty important to let learning take place. I
don't use textbooks unless I've given up on a class that won't fend
for itself (some demand spoonfeeding and find discovery learning
terrifying). It's easy enough to get classes round to looking at work
motivation in terms of the content and process theories of 'chapter
three' and regurgitate what's there. To a man jack they'd all give up
work if they won the lottery, suggesting a rather different theory.
I'm sure the books are mostly wrong and that more than that the need
for basic texts is a combination of bad teachers and commercial
pressures to get bums through seats. I try to met people do what
interests them, what they want to find and express - but as in all
human activity there is a problem with people promising 'your own way'
who don't mean it. And it's much more difficult today to defend
students who don't toe to the party line. Is it possible to 'respect
ignorance' but at the same time fail it? What is a person who wants
to stay ignorant doing in a learning environment? Further down the
line one often finds research leads one to the conclusion that what's
taught is rubbish - something one might also achieve just in reacting
to a teacher one doesn't like without doing the hard work! Our
schools claim to be doing a better job than ever - but walking Max
through litter and evading broken bottles left by the products of
school education I'm not so sure. Still smirking on your comment me
old China.

On Jan 27, 11:13 pm, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ahhh but what if majority opinion was to sway towards your way Archy?
>
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>
> On Sunday, 27 January 2013 22:56:22 UTC, archytas wrote:
>
> > Much majority opinion, when tested, contains almost no evaluation,
> > nothing on alternative views (other than suspicion) and no critique or
> > originality.  Many of the people involved are remarkably decent,
> > hospitable and so on.  The majority view on the science I've done is
> > non-existent - people don't have the requisite languages.
> > Anthropology throws up majority views across cultures that are frankly
> > barking (as in our own histories and probably now).  We might walk one
> > of Andrew's thought parks and look back from the near future and
> > realise neo-classical economics really was a barking mad control fraud
> > that held us back from world peace - or that it saved us from a world
> > once again dominated by religion.
>
> > On Jan 27, 5:54 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > If you asked someone in the herd, if they considered themselves to be
> > > part of the herd, or if their view was their opinion, I suspect that
> > > you would hear a view entirely different than the opinion you just
> > > voiced, Andrew.  An opinion filled with judgments presented as fact
> > > (or a an attempt of such,) twisted words and thinly veiled accusations
> > > are always weak argument.  Words like arrogant and vain are value
> > > judgments.  Herd mentality is a documented sociological phenomenon.
> > > Most operating under herd mentality do not understand that the basis
> > > of their thinking or opinion is fear.  I would speculate that most
> > > political rhetoric is aimed at forming herd mentality with fear.  At
> > > least, all the political ads in every city I have ever lived in the
> > > US.
>
> > > On Jan 27, 12:23 pm, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Heard mentality or herd mentality is not an opinion. It is just
> > blindly
> > > > following the loudest voice heard either out of fear or out of  not
> > having
> > > > an opinion but taking it from the herd you chose to follow in order to
> > > > conform.  The majority opinion in not necessarily the loudest opinion
> > you
> > > > hear. The loudest opinion usually comes from an arrogant, vain and
> > > > disrespectful person who is power hungry and has enough money for a
> > > > brainwashing campaign. Like a dictator who disregards majority
> > opinions as
> > > > mindless.
>
> > > > On Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:12:08 PM UTC+1, Molly wrote:
>
> > > > > Of course, I meant herd mentality.  Now, off to work!
>
> > > > > On Jan 27, 10:00 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > before the judgments fly any further, a differentiation between
> > heard
> > > > > > mentality and majority thinking might be in order.  It is possible
> > > > > > there there is truth in what Andrew and Allan are saying, but
> > gross
> > > > > > generalization, paradoxically, leads to a narrow view, one that is
> > > > > > unable to consider another. Heard mentality can indeed, be
> > dangerous,
> > > > > > and a great manipulator can take advantage.  History bears this
> > out on
> > > > > > many occasions.
>
> > > > > > On Jan 27, 4:35 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > what ever andrew
>
> > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 7:55 AM, andrew vecsey <
> > andrewvec...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Except when the majority opinion happens to agree with your
> > own
> > > > > opinion. In
> > > > > > > > my own personal opinion, anyone who thinks that the majority
> > opinion
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > mindless shows clear signs of arrogance, vanity and
> > disrespect. All
> > > > > opinions
> > > > > > > > should be respected. Is that not the basis of democracy?
>
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:44:57 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> the majority opinion is the easiest one to manipulate as it
> > has no
> > > > > > > >> idea what it is.  because of that it is the easiest to
> > control
> > > > > being
> > > > > > > >> both mindless, disorientated with no where to go and no idea
> > of
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > >> it believes as well as willing to believe  the comforting lie
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > > >> tan the simple truth.
>
> > > > > > > >> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 8:57 PM, andrew vecsey <
> > andrew...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > The majority opinion is the most FAIR, most JUST, most
> > > > > comprehensive....
> > > > > > > >> > opinion. You can not call it the best, the most correct, or
> > the
> > > > > most
> > > > > > > >> > moral
> > > > > > > >> > etc...because those evaluations are personal. Majority
> > opinion is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > >> > personal.
>
> > > > > > > >> > On Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:15:25 PM UTC+1, archytas
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> >> .......I think we know
> > > > > > > >> >> what the right things to do are but are scared of our
> > impotence
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > >> >> understanding more of why might help.
>
> > > > > > > >> >> On Jan 26, 10:14 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > In present tense it means acknowledging the massive
> > amount of
> > > > > > > >> >> > illnesses,
> > > > > > > >> >> > deaths and general deformation of humanness because of a
> > > > > protestant
> > > > > > > >> >> > work
> > > > > > > >> >> > ethics that serves very much the one and less the many.
> > I hope
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > >> >> > can
> > > > > > > >> >> > decipher my shorthand by now.
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > 2013/1/26 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > Yes and no one is more or less past tense the other is
> > on
> > > > > going,
> > > > > > > >> >> > > one killing was based off racial superiority,, the
> > other
> > > > >  killing
> > > > > > > >> >> > > is
> > > > > > > >> >> > > based off religious superiority,
> > > > > > > >> >> > > Whats the difference..    ??
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:25 AM, gabbydott <
> > > > > gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > > > The other serving as a better example of wickedness
> > is a
> > > > > classic,
> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Allan.
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > > 2013/1/26 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> A better example Riggs   and sadly enough  is Islam
> > in
> > > > > today's
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> world..
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> This is evidenced in all the news reports of the
> > day.
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:43 AM, rigs <
> > rigs...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > The Nazis seem an obvious example of fairly
> > recent
> > > > > history-
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > that's all
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > I meant- and history is littered with examples as
> > > > > explicated
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > by
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > Archytas. It's as if the majority gets caught up
> > in a
> > > > > wave- to
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > use
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > Molly's image. Though there may be concrete
> > reasons at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > base,
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > it is
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > often an irrational reaction. My point is that
> > when
> > > > > dissent is
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > silenced, democracy is in trouble.
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> > On Jan 25, 1:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> Ah, rigs. :( Where is Molly by the way?
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> Let's give the majority opinion problem a hearty
> > > > > positive
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> spin
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> and
> > > > > > > >> >> > > say:
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> the
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> majority of Germans is happy that the majority
> > of
> > > > > Americans
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> is
> > > > > > > >> >> > > happily
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> forming their opinions in America and exchange
> > it over
> > > > > there.
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> :)
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> On Friday, January 25, 2013 2:03:29 PM UTC+1,
> > rigs
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > And very often their very existence does
> > depend upon
> > > > > going
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > along
> > > > > > > >> >> > > with
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > the majority. However, one feature of
> > democracy is
> > > > > that of
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > dissent
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > but
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > it can be risky esp. if the majority has a mob
> > > > > mentality.
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > When
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > you
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > think of the average classroom it is obvious
> > that
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > pattern
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > is to
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > echo rather than question and the same applies
> > to
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > areas
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > of
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > life.
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > It is just as likely that the group can be
> > corrupt
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > "membership"
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > can
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > be a doom- ex: Nazis, etc.
>
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Jan 25, 1:43 am, archytas <
> > nwte...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > If there is one concept on Earth that has
> > been the
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > absolute
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > bane
> > > > > > > >> >> > > of
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > human existence (besides global elitism), it
> > would
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > to
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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