Re: Mind's Eye Re: Madness and Sanity

Uh, I'm not.

On Feb 11, 5:34 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Puh, Molly. Common sense tells us that Rigs' 'eventually fail' does not
> mean 3 rows down the paragraph! And I said it was not only me saying that
> about me but also others saying the same thing, the same time, about me. On
> the Rigs scale that would make me an immediate fail. What I have asked YOU
> is, what are you measuring on your not enough scale when it's not
> time+purpose?
>
> 2013/2/11 Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > So, your ego tells you there is lack in your experience, based on your
> > emotional charge, memories, expectations, identity - all the wonderful
> > things that make up that intangible aspect of self referred to as
> > ego.  Nothing wrong with it at all.  It measures, holds historical
> > data, projects, all very important functions of mind.
>
> > I was responding to Rigs comment that fraud and evil eventually fail
> > due to some universal law.  Our view of the result of these laws in
> > action may be effected by ego.  Just sayin.
>
> > On Feb 11, 10:04 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ??? Enough for what? On which scale? - I always find myself lacking
> > > experience, lacking knowledge. Others would support that view. So,
> > what???
>
> > > 2013/2/11 Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > At the level of cause and effect, it is karma, Once transcended,
> > > > simple recognition will evoke a change.  But it might not be the
> > > > change speculated by ego, that contains personal value and agenda.
> > > > One sure sign that ego is creating our view is that we find our
> > > > experience lacking - not enough.
>
> > > > On Feb 10, 11:53 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Eventually fraud and evil fail by their own undoing by some universal
> > > > > law or force.
>
> > > > > On Feb 10, 6:39 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > The ultimate model in this is Gresham's Law or at least it's modern
> > > > > > version - that allowing fraud just encourages more of it and drives
> > > > > > out honest business behaviour.  The idea was expressed in
> > Gulliver's
> > > > > > Travels.  I can see what you mean about models Molly and broadly
> > > > > > agree.  We still live with Machiavelli in terms of leadership.  We
> > can
> > > > > > see Dorner isn't Dirty Harry.  I just wonder if we could form a
> > system
> > > > > > that chased the kind of leaders we get into jail or the line of
> > fire.
> > > > > > I fear it's too late.  I do think the average jury would convict
> > the
> > > > > > bankster types if we treated them as we will Dorner - we just
> > aren't
> > > > > > allowed to use our sense of justice because of Delaware
> > registration
> > > > > > laws and the rest.  I'm giving up myself in order to have my last
> > > > > > years in uninteresting times.
>
> > > > > > On Feb 10, 9:11 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Each model tells us something.  More, maybe.  How much do the
> > models
> > > > > > > tell us about how to relate to our daily experience?  In the
> > event
> > > > > > > that we all look away from bad behavior and don't question
> > whether or
> > > > > > > not it adds us to potential problems because doing so means we
> > become
> > > > > > > accountable ourselves - what the models tell us have little
> > value.
> > > >  We
> > > > > > >elli all do it, not just groups or systems.  We are all
> > accountable.
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 10, 12:18 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >http://wer.worldeconomicsassociation.org/article/view/37
>
> > > > > > > > I'm guessing the criminal model might tell us more Molly.  When
> > > > even
> > > > > > > > something like microfinance goes as horribly wrong as the link
> > > > > > > > suggests I wonder what it is that makes us spot criminality and
> > > > > > > > madness.  Dorner reminds me (a bit) of the morality crash I
> > saw in
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > management buy out years ago.  In grand principle he has
> > probably
> > > > done
> > > > > > > > less than we manage with drone attack - but the grey-shading of
> > > > 'dirty
> > > > > > > > hands' doesn't enter his case.  We can see he's a murderer and
> > > > > > > > probably paranoid-narcissist.  We seem to lack such clarity
> > with
> > > > much
> > > > > > > > else going on and I'm not sure it really is that difficult.
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 3:26 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Not sure criminal behavior is a gauge, as much as a symptom
> > of a
> > > > > > > > > multitude of disorders.  I've met many narcissistic
> > sociopaths
> > > > who are
> > > > > > > > > adept at taking it right to the edge of illegal or what case
> > can
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > > won in court (or in the workplace, HR), and do a great deal
> > of
> > > > damage
> > > > > > > > > operating like that.  They continue, as you say, because of
> > our
> > > > > > > > > tendency to look away from what is uncomfortable instead of
> > > > having
> > > > > > > > > those difficult conversations to see problems through to a
> > > > conclusion
> > > > > > > > > where everyone wins and no one loses.  Losers make sure other
> > > > people
> > > > > > > > > lose.  They often don't see that they, themselves are losing.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 9:36 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://youranonnews.tumblr.com/post/42506354980/heres-an-uncensored-c.
> > ..
>
> > > > > > > > > > Christopher Dorner the former LAPD officer gone rogue is
> > > > clearly mad
> > > > > > > > > > if the link above is his work.  There's a persecution
> > complex
> > > > and he
> > > > > > > > > > wanders off into statements about public figures as though
> > > > they'd give
> > > > > > > > > > a toss on his opinion.  The probably squalid murders he's
> > > > committed
> > > > > > > > > > are somehow justified in a messy story of himself as public
> > > > avenger.
>
> > > > > > > > > > My own view of the world is probably more extreme than
> > > > Dorner's.  I
> > > > > > > > > > don't believe we get much right in our organisations and
> > I'm
> > > > sure we
> > > > > > > > > > suffer from collective madness and denial in most of our
> > > > dealings with
> > > > > > > > > > each other.  I don't believe that the vast majority of our
> > > > cops,
> > > > > > > > > > nurses and so on are hard working and generally do the
> > right
> > > > thing -
> > > > > > > > > > rather most people don't care much and spend an awful lot
> > of
> > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > 'looking the other way'.  The truth is that most of our
> > > > complaints'
> > > > > > > > > > systems don't work and were designed not to.  The kind of
> > > > evidence of
> > > > > > > > > > what I'm saying here is the Hillsborough Report - this
> > > > demonstrates
> > > > > > > > > > that rather than standing up for truth, pretty much every
> > cop
> > > > lied and
> > > > > > > > > > the public was mislead for more than 20 years.  Nurses are
> > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > > > patients who can't fend for themselves lying in their own
> > mess
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > even worse.  Abused children are left with abusers.  What
> > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > convinces me we are getting almost everything wrong is an
> > > > absence of
> > > > > > > > > > real statistical reasoning - what we get is performance
> > > > management
> > > > > > > > > > (juking) and promises lessons are being learned that last
> > > > until the
> > > > > > > > > > next serious incident comes to light - when the promise is
> > > > used again.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I wonder what separates me from sad/bad jerks like Dorner?
> >  I
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > kill people and wouldn't, much as I liked the film, dream
> > of
> > > > doing
> > > > > > > > > > Dirty Harry - the evidence is rarely clear enough.  The
> > truth
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > usually banal and even dull.  I can't work out how I know
> > > > Dorner is a
> > > > > > > > > > clown and yet believe police complaints systems are hapless
> > > > and cover
> > > > > > > > > > a multitude of sins.  I know most whistleblowers face
> > dreadful
> > > > > > > > > > smearing, but this guy is out of it.  John Kiriakou seems
> > sane
> > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > US finally mad in sending him to jail and making Brennan
> > head
> > > > of CIA.
>
> > > > > > > > > > How do we gauge madness and sanity?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
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>
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