Re: Mind's Eye Something Allan Said

many please tell me one that didn't?

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:20 PM, rigs <rigs117@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gangsters don't have all that red tape. Ah, but many a royal line
> started with thugs.
>
> On Feb 24, 10:59 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The supplication bit used to strike me when putting research and
>> project bids in. It often felt like begging and a lot of the time the
>> decisions were being made by totally inappropriate people who made you
>> feel they expected you to prostrate yourself in front of them. This
>> was all done by changing deadlines - taking a couple of months off
>> when bids had to be in and yet delaying payment on successful ones by
>> a year or so - the farce was such that if you could stay in the
>> process huge wads of "cash" far in excess of what you bid for would
>> come available because all the competition was exhausted. A number of
>> my bids were in the regional growth area and if the content was ever
>> true I should have been responsible for creating and safeguarding
>> several thousand jobs - the truth being most of the money disappeared
>> to bureaucracies and the few jobs the projects directly created to run
>> themselves. Most of my own energy was lost in getting the bids
>> through. The money usually arrived long after we could have done the
>> work. It was all a confirmation of rigs' usual statement on
>> 'profligate government'. 'Good examples' of projects were such as
>> £50K for a video on how to put a crust on a meat pie! Others (which
>> were supposed to be about new technology) ended up giving textile
>> workers our NVQ qualifications in textiles in a job market for such
>> going down the toilet. Bids might be turned down because you used the
>> term North West England instead of England's Northwest. You had to
>> deal with GONW (government office northwest), NWRDO (north west
>> regional development office), EU this, EU that and a variety of
>> initiatives, objectives and holding agencies for them. The
>> documentation for whole bids would be lost, false documentation for
>> bids posted online until 2 days before the deadline and so on. The
>> language of business plans was precisely the dross James mentions -
>> excellence, kwality, enterprise, accountability (making sure none was
>> possible) ...
>>
>> I'm fairly sure some of the successful Mafia bids in Italy actually
>> produced more!
>>
>> On Feb 23, 7:57 am, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Something just clicked, for some reason I couldn't sleep and out of
>> > nowhere a voice asked, "what are you supposed to be doing?" As my
>> > thoughts go "supposed" was a blurry word, it changes definition and
>> > context each time I touch it, until every appropriate meaning becomes
>> > expressed in a web of overlaid narratives. It never results in the
>> > knowledge everyone else seems to have been born with, "where am I", most
>> > seem to just know, and are repulsed by such a question.
>>
>> > I'm not sure that I have a solid grasp of the concept of plurality but
>> > it does seem that much of the time people mostly operate as though such
>> > a thing does not exist. Not picking on the extreme cases and 'true
>> > believer' types really, but it seems to be a lost art if it ever were
>> > one. The lower criteria you mention is more than a veneer of civility
>> > but I think a healthy orientation toward interpersonal dialogue, perhaps
>> > a consequence of accepting plural domains, or in hand, on the way toward
>> > appreciating, etc. This to me is the opposite of overspecialized and
>> > hypersensitive, reactionary, dogmatic and parochial (ad nauseum)
>> > attitudes- contrariwise, it is the attitude of building bridges between
>> > rifts and conflict, promoting problem solving and inoculating against
>> > cynicism and resentment. It seems that people exercising those skills
>> > rather than defensive posturing are more likely to be effective, but
>> > that would likely depend on climate.
>>
>> > Neat word usage Neil, I've never seen supplication used like that. I
>> > take it you won't be presenting any of the 'systems thinking' management
>> > seminars? "Just buy 100 copies for your team of educators at 70% retail
>> > to see amazing productivity gains!" They just learn to pretend better so
>> > they don't have to go through it again, it's called trauma-induced
>> > performance gains. The ontologists and programmers might get a tiny bit
>> > excited. :p
>>
>> > Earlier today I was pondering schemes for producing more and better
>> > paying lower/middle class jobs and it seems that everything has
>> > accelerated except job production. It seems we need to revamp and target
>> > local and regional distribution. If we could cook up a way to generate
>> > job growth, perhaps in small enterprise, even if it costs money to do so
>> > the social benefit goes way up on those types of investment. One idea
>> > (mental halfbakery rather) is to produce a gain on revenues exchanged
>> > locally and not with corporations over a certain size or banks so the
>> > more times it goes around the more value people get. This starts
>> > sounding like local currency and decentralization real quick, and
>> > apparently that can be a very successful option as well.
>>
>> > "Ask people what they want to do." I'll be mulling over the lines
>> > between that point and local economies. Facilitation is heavy with big
>> > businesses, why not take it in the other direction?
>>
>> > On 2/22/2013 9:03 PM, archytas wrote:
>>
>> > > Some time back Allan said (more or less) 'everything is a point of
>> > > view' - very Nietzsche - but also science. A bloke called Myrdal was
>> > > arguing such in the 50's.
>>
>> > > I'm jaded by academic argument. After a while the major feeling it
>> > > leaves me with is how self-serving it is and how excluding it is. You
>> > > can end up in the sanctimonious position of 'wishing everyone else
>> > > would get up to speed on learning'. Nearly all academic argument is
>> > > sterile and corrupt. The promises remind me of 'religion for dupes',
>> > > promising pre-supposition-less states and varieties of 'objectivity'
>> > > that cannot be achieved much like salvation. Much of the
>> > > argumentation ends up with suck-egg assertions we should look at the
>> > > human world as about "power". The only pre-supposition-less humans
>> > > I've met weren't breathing. None of the ones alive were objective
>> > > (this includes all scientists and my view of myself as one) - but some
>> > > met lower criteria like being fair, decent, tactfully honest and
>> > > prepared to give the other an even break, hospitable, generous ...
>>
>> > > Allan is right - but perspectivalism leaves us with choices between
>> > > perspectives. In science we have given up on phlogiston theory and
>> > > astronomy (despite internal consistency) and have a big record that
>> > > can be read and followed in practice much as we might do cooking,
>> > > gardening and so on following books and mother's-knee experience as we
>> > > go along (this is the tropical fish version of scientific practice).
>>
>> > > What we are taught at school is largely about supplication - to be
>> > > able to convince employers we are employable, reliable, malleable to
>> > > their interests - much academic argument is supplication - the writing
>> > > has much in common with dress codes. Various closed circles reference
>> > > holy scrolls, occasionally arguing the toss on what the prophet
>> > > actually meant.
>>
>> > > I'm for de-schooling and the removal of debt-burdening education - we
>> > > need to get back to work and learning by living with each other. I
>> > > think most of the best academics would prefer that to the current
>> > > parasitic cloisters. Given current technology we could ask people
>> > > what they want to do. I see no sign of that.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..

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