Re: Mind's Eye Something Allan Said

It isn't religion as much as not having an ethical political and
social system. Many ills have hidden behind religion.

On Feb 25, 2:08 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> disappearing money, all with its justifications. Can we say the Golden
> calf is alive and feeding?
>
> Oddly the morality is still there shown by the need too justify the
> funds they have stolen  ,,  Sorry I mean diverted. Wait a minute when
> you take or divert something that does not belong to you is stealing,
> that does not help those or projects the money is stolen from.
>
> Is it the fault of religion that allow this type of activity to be acceptable?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:59 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The supplication bit used to strike me when putting research and
> > project bids in.  It often felt like begging and a lot of the time the
> > decisions were being made by totally inappropriate people who made you
> > feel they expected you to prostrate yourself in front of them.  This
> > was all done by changing deadlines - taking a couple of months off
> > when bids had to be in and yet delaying payment on successful ones by
> > a year or so - the farce was such that if you could stay in the
> > process huge wads of "cash" far in excess of what you bid for would
> > come available because all the competition was exhausted.  A number of
> > my bids were in the regional growth area and if the content was ever
> > true I should have been responsible for creating and safeguarding
> > several thousand jobs - the truth being most of the money disappeared
> > to bureaucracies and the few jobs the projects directly created to run
> > themselves.  Most of my own energy was lost in getting the bids
> > through.  The money usually arrived long after we could have done the
> > work.  It was all a confirmation of rigs' usual statement on
> > 'profligate government'.  'Good examples' of projects were such as
> > £50K for a video on how to put a crust on a meat pie!  Others (which
> > were supposed to be about new technology) ended up giving textile
> > workers our NVQ qualifications in textiles in a job market for such
> > going down the toilet.  Bids might be turned down because you used the
> > term North West England instead of England's Northwest.  You had to
> > deal with GONW (government office northwest), NWRDO (north west
> > regional development office), EU this, EU that and a variety of
> > initiatives, objectives and holding agencies for them.  The
> > documentation for whole bids would be lost, false documentation for
> > bids posted online until 2 days before the deadline and so on.  The
> > language of business plans was precisely the dross James mentions -
> > excellence, kwality, enterprise, accountability (making sure none was
> > possible) ...
>
> > I'm fairly sure some of the successful Mafia bids in Italy actually
> > produced more!
>
> > On Feb 23, 7:57 am, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Something just clicked, for some reason I couldn't sleep and out of
> >> nowhere a voice asked, "what are you supposed to be doing?" As my
> >> thoughts go "supposed" was a blurry word, it changes definition and
> >> context each time I touch it, until every appropriate meaning becomes
> >> expressed in a web of overlaid narratives. It never results in the
> >> knowledge everyone else seems to have been born with, "where am I", most
> >> seem to just know, and are repulsed by such a question.
>
> >> I'm not sure that I have a solid grasp of the concept of plurality but
> >> it does seem that much of the time people mostly operate as though such
> >> a thing does not exist. Not picking on the extreme cases and 'true
> >> believer' types really, but it seems to be a lost art if it ever were
> >> one. The lower criteria you mention is more than a veneer of civility
> >> but I think a healthy orientation toward interpersonal dialogue, perhaps
> >> a consequence of accepting plural domains, or in hand, on the way toward
> >> appreciating, etc. This to me is the opposite of overspecialized and
> >> hypersensitive, reactionary, dogmatic and parochial (ad nauseum)
> >> attitudes- contrariwise, it is the attitude of building bridges between
> >> rifts and conflict, promoting problem solving and inoculating against
> >> cynicism and resentment. It seems that people exercising those skills
> >> rather than defensive posturing are more likely to be effective, but
> >> that would likely depend on climate.
>
> >> Neat word usage Neil, I've never seen supplication used like that. I
> >> take it you won't be presenting any of the 'systems thinking' management
> >> seminars? "Just buy 100 copies for your team of educators at 70% retail
> >> to see amazing productivity gains!" They just learn to pretend better so
> >> they don't have to go through it again, it's called trauma-induced
> >> performance gains. The ontologists and programmers might get a tiny bit
> >> excited. :p
>
> >> Earlier today I was pondering schemes for producing more and better
> >> paying lower/middle class jobs and it seems that everything has
> >> accelerated except job production. It seems we need to revamp and target
> >> local and regional distribution. If we could cook up a way to generate
> >> job growth, perhaps in small enterprise, even if it costs money to do so
> >> the social benefit goes way up on those types of investment. One idea
> >> (mental halfbakery rather) is to produce a gain on revenues exchanged
> >> locally and not with corporations over a certain size or banks so the
> >> more times it goes around the more value people get. This starts
> >> sounding like local currency and decentralization real quick, and
> >> apparently that can be a very successful option as well.
>
> >> "Ask people what they want to do." I'll be mulling over the lines
> >> between that point and local economies. Facilitation is heavy with big
> >> businesses, why not take it in the other direction?
>
> >> On 2/22/2013 9:03 PM, archytas wrote:
>
> >> > Some time back Allan said (more or less) 'everything is a point of
> >> > view' - very Nietzsche - but also science.  A bloke called Myrdal was
> >> > arguing such in the 50's.
>
> >> > I'm jaded by academic argument.  After a while the major feeling it
> >> > leaves me with is how self-serving it is and how excluding it is.  You
> >> > can end up in the sanctimonious position of 'wishing everyone else
> >> > would get up to speed on learning'.  Nearly all academic argument is
> >> > sterile and corrupt.  The promises remind me of 'religion for dupes',
> >> > promising pre-supposition-less states and varieties of 'objectivity'
> >> > that cannot be achieved much like salvation.  Much of the
> >> > argumentation ends up with suck-egg assertions we should look at the
> >> > human world as about "power".  The only pre-supposition-less humans
> >> > I've met weren't breathing.  None of the ones alive were objective
> >> > (this includes all scientists and my view of myself as one) - but some
> >> > met lower criteria like being fair, decent, tactfully honest and
> >> > prepared to give the other an even break, hospitable, generous ...
>
> >> > Allan is right - but perspectivalism leaves us with choices between
> >> > perspectives.  In science we have given up on phlogiston theory and
> >> > astronomy (despite internal consistency) and have a big record that
> >> > can be read and followed in practice much as we might do cooking,
> >> > gardening and so on following books and mother's-knee experience as we
> >> > go along (this is the tropical fish version of scientific practice).
>
> >> > What we are taught at school is largely about supplication - to be
> >> > able to convince employers we are employable, reliable, malleable to
> >> > their interests - much academic argument is supplication - the writing
> >> > has much in common with dress codes.  Various closed circles reference
> >> > holy scrolls, occasionally arguing the toss on what the prophet
> >> > actually meant.
>
> >> > I'm for de-schooling and the removal of debt-burdening education - we
> >> > need to get back to work and learning by living with each other.  I
> >> > think most of the best academics would prefer that to the current
> >> > parasitic cloisters.  Given current technology we could ask people
> >> > what they want to do.  I see no sign of that.
>
> > --
>
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> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> Of course I talk to myself,
> Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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