Re: Mind's Eye Something Allan Said

Yes- I've seen that with younger friends and I agree with your
definition of debris. I've also seen activists give up in frustration.
Anyway- it just isn't me- my neighbor and several friends my age think
our youth was a great era- but there were social ills we were
sheltered from and had some boundaries that gave us time to enjoy our
youth. Honestly, we had to read about the ills or watch documentaries-
maybe we lived in a dream world!

On Feb 24, 9:20 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know many people that were a part of the campus demonstrations of
> the times.  They are now executives and politicians, having felt
> empowered from the get go.  Influencing the end of the war in Vietnam
> and the US civil rights movement as a collective taught many lessons
> on social change.  For me, the debris might be collateral damage like
> death from drug abuse, growing addiction statistics and the
> deconstruction of the family unit (until alternative structures were
> developed and accepted for the children in them.)
>
> On Feb 24, 8:46 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was in my mid 20's. I think the assassinations, sit-ins and burning
> > of cities were a shock as I had grown up in what seemed a unified
> > America. I don't think anyone I knew was involved in political and
> > social unrest/debris.
>
> > On Feb 24, 1:13 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yeah Rigsy, America existed before you were born..  Metro was attacked
> > > during the commie scare and it took a university to protect him.. a
> > > very great teacher and botanist..  I remember him as a child what he
> > > had..
> > > Ah the debris of the 60's  let me see,,  I didn't know enough to start
> > > it as I turned 18 in '65 so the debris was all ready started.. and
> > > everyone  was older than me or at least the leaders were  seems most
> > > of them were your age Rigsy.. so where were you when the debris was
> > > being created..??
>
> > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 11:42 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > My America existed before you were born. Sorry you all missed those
> > > > days. Hope my children have the skills to wade through the debris
> > > > starting in the '60's. (No one paid attention to the commie-scare.) I
> > > > would appreciate some golden years of my retirement. Today I made a
> > > > kettle of Italian sausage minestone soup and and another of chili-
> > > > nine pints for the freezer. Watched a Kirk Douglas movie while I
> > > > cooked. Last night I watched "Foyle's War" with Michael Kitchen- he
> > > > was also in "Reckless". I am doing what I like. Life is good.
>
> > > > On Feb 23, 1:57 am, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Something just clicked, for some reason I couldn't sleep and out of
> > > >> nowhere a voice asked, "what are you supposed to be doing?" As my
> > > >> thoughts go "supposed" was a blurry word, it changes definition and
> > > >> context each time I touch it, until every appropriate meaning becomes
> > > >> expressed in a web of overlaid narratives. It never results in the
> > > >> knowledge everyone else seems to have been born with, "where am I", most
> > > >> seem to just know, and are repulsed by such a question.
>
> > > >> I'm not sure that I have a solid grasp of the concept of plurality but
> > > >> it does seem that much of the time people mostly operate as though such
> > > >> a thing does not exist. Not picking on the extreme cases and 'true
> > > >> believer' types really, but it seems to be a lost art if it ever were
> > > >> one. The lower criteria you mention is more than a veneer of civility
> > > >> but I think a healthy orientation toward interpersonal dialogue, perhaps
> > > >> a consequence of accepting plural domains, or in hand, on the way toward
> > > >> appreciating, etc. This to me is the opposite of overspecialized and
> > > >> hypersensitive, reactionary, dogmatic and parochial (ad nauseum)
> > > >> attitudes- contrariwise, it is the attitude of building bridges between
> > > >> rifts and conflict, promoting problem solving and inoculating against
> > > >> cynicism and resentment. It seems that people exercising those skills
> > > >> rather than defensive posturing are more likely to be effective, but
> > > >> that would likely depend on climate.
>
> > > >> Neat word usage Neil, I've never seen supplication used like that. I
> > > >> take it you won't be presenting any of the 'systems thinking' management
> > > >> seminars? "Just buy 100 copies for your team of educators at 70% retail
> > > >> to see amazing productivity gains!" They just learn to pretend better so
> > > >> they don't have to go through it again, it's called trauma-induced
> > > >> performance gains. The ontologists and programmers might get a tiny bit
> > > >> excited. :p
>
> > > >> Earlier today I was pondering schemes for producing more and better
> > > >> paying lower/middle class jobs and it seems that everything has
> > > >> accelerated except job production. It seems we need to revamp and target
> > > >> local and regional distribution. If we could cook up a way to generate
> > > >> job growth, perhaps in small enterprise, even if it costs money to do so
> > > >> the social benefit goes way up on those types of investment. One idea
> > > >> (mental halfbakery rather) is to produce a gain on revenues exchanged
> > > >> locally and not with corporations over a certain size or banks so the
> > > >> more times it goes around the more value people get. This starts
> > > >> sounding like local currency and decentralization real quick, and
> > > >> apparently that can be a very successful option as well.
>
> > > >> "Ask people what they want to do." I'll be mulling over the lines
> > > >> between that point and local economies. Facilitation is heavy with big
> > > >> businesses, why not take it in the other direction?
>
> > > >> On 2/22/2013 9:03 PM, archytas wrote:
>
> > > >> > Some time back Allan said (more or less) 'everything is a point of
> > > >> > view' - very Nietzsche - but also science.  A bloke called Myrdal was
> > > >> > arguing such in the 50's.
>
> > > >> > I'm jaded by academic argument.  After a while the major feeling it
> > > >> > leaves me with is how self-serving it is and how excluding it is.  You
> > > >> > can end up in the sanctimonious position of 'wishing everyone else
> > > >> > would get up to speed on learning'.  Nearly all academic argument is
> > > >> > sterile and corrupt.  The promises remind me of 'religion for dupes',
> > > >> > promising pre-supposition-less states and varieties of 'objectivity'
> > > >> > that cannot be achieved much like salvation.  Much of the
> > > >> > argumentation ends up with suck-egg assertions we should look at the
> > > >> > human world as about "power".  The only pre-supposition-less humans
> > > >> > I've met weren't breathing.  None of the ones alive were objective
> > > >> > (this includes all scientists and my view of myself as one) - but some
> > > >> > met lower criteria like being fair, decent, tactfully honest and
> > > >> > prepared to give the other an even break, hospitable, generous ...
>
> > > >> > Allan is right - but perspectivalism leaves us with choices between
> > > >> > perspectives.  In science we have given up on phlogiston theory and
> > > >> > astronomy (despite internal consistency) and have a big record that
> > > >> > can be read and followed in practice much as we might do cooking,
> > > >> > gardening and so on following books and mother's-knee experience as we
> > > >> > go along (this is the tropical fish version of scientific practice).
>
> > > >> > What we are taught at school is largely about supplication - to be
> > > >> > able to convince employers we are employable, reliable, malleable to
> > > >> > their interests - much academic argument is supplication - the writing
> > > >> > has much in common with dress codes.  Various closed circles reference
> > > >> > holy scrolls, occasionally arguing the toss on what the prophet
> > > >> > actually meant.
>
> > > >> > I'm for de-schooling and the removal of debt-burdening education - we
> > > >> > need to get back to work and learning by living with each other.  I
> > > >> > think most of the best academics would prefer that to the current
> > > >> > parasitic cloisters.  Given current technology we could ask people
> > > >> > what they want to do.  I see no sign of that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > --
>
> > > > ---
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>
> > > --
> > >  (
> > >   )
> > > |_D Allan
>
> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > Of course I talk to myself,
> > > Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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