when it comes to meditation it is all vague, what works for one doesn't work for another..
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 7:03 PM, James <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes Gabby I had it prominently in mind that when one develops discipline against strong influences it becomes important to distinguish between inner and outer landscapes. I find that applying the mind affirms the heart in this case, and to gain deeper compassion as a result is a gift. It is not a liability, it doesn't make us weaker but the simplistic rejection of complex human beings with the need to be and express against what is can indeed and leads to outbursts of futility. There is a choice there in how to direct what can become a volatile energy, and acknowledge that actions speak louder than words- inaction is easier to undo, but/and.. It is difficult to determine what is appropriate to say, I could write for months describing details of experience on this tiny thing that fits into a few words. Who will speak for everyone? Is there such a language? Those are among the most serious questions I know of, no games intended.
If I sounded skeptical of Molly's description of the quieting it isn't because I disagree with the result but that the process can be very difficult and complex. And for what? Do we risk quenching the wrong voice? If everything is alive, nothing at rest in a beautiful mess succumbing to either reason or madness is just not good enough. Funny, I never considered myself a warrior or a poet.
If I am following the discussion well I haven't seen any contradition yet in this thread, if you see more then take us there, sorry for my vague language.
On 8/28/2013 12:45 PM, Gabby Thiede wrote:
I don't know, Molly. It's this language games level again. Which is why I assume Vam wants to take his followers up in the mountains where you have a great view.Am 28.08.2013 um 17:56 schrieb Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com <mailto:mollyb363@gmail.com>>:
I can't event demand my own mind be quiet, it just happens as a matter of view. We each determine our own views to the grave, and then, who knows?<javascript:>>:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 1:17:43 PM UTC-4, Gabby wrote:
I see it that as much as mind is not meant to be
quiet/still/dead, the body is not meant to be quiet/still/dead -
until you are dead. When you practice quieting the mind, the body
asks you quiet the pains also. Ideally you don't forget that when
demanding others to be still.
Am 27.08.2013 um 04:38 schrieb James <ashk...@gmail.comit, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.
> Congratulations Molly, and hello Amanda. This is a very
flexible way of seeing a quiet mental landscape, 'quiet' is a
good description but is very general. It may sound too simple
when the circumstances include long term stress, tension and
conflict. I have a rough idea that there is a range between
adaptable clarity and what seems to be thoughts/emotions
demanding narrow focus. I mean narrow focus with no discovery or
exploration, those are useful. I suppose being able to navigate
freely and draw on multiple modes of thinking is my ideal
character of clarity, able to focus intensely for periods as
needed but not excessively. But isn't this a chicken or egg? When
struggling with stress disorders, tension headache, tinnitus, or
whatever makes someone's head feel like a full chorus field of
crickets they need strategic intel. The building familiarity and
confidence approach has worked for me (in my scattered approach),
I don't know what part of me said 'dammit, I will beat this' at
times but it has helped to kick start the process if meant
seriously. I've had to cobble together a lot, the books on
psychology seem to only have contraindications for me.
>
> It seems in general that there are contributions to be made
from a wide range of experience, refinements and broadening out
but it can be hard to find where things fit and such a large
variety of human experience.
>
> On 8/23/2013 7:57 AM, Molly wrote:
>> Loss and major life change can be daunting, I have had my
share in recent years, and am facing the loss of my professional
mentor and second mom now. With the recent birth of my first
grandchild, I realize that it is easier to say hello than good
bye, but no less significant. Both can be miraculous.
>>
>> I have heard a quiet mind explained many different ways. Of
course, a functional mind is integral to life, but it does get
carried away with incessant thought, inflated ego, complex
emotion... The best method I have heard for quieting a run away
mind is to notice the quiet space between different thoughts, and
rest there. Once you have rested there, it is not hard to find
again. The longer you stay in the quiet, the easier it is to
sustain. Unnecessary thought begins to fall away naturally. It
isn't anything that can be forced. It requires the ability to
self observe - observe yourself thinking, observe the thoughts,
find the quiet between, observe yourself with a quiet mind
(paradox I know). There is a clear awareness that retains being,
and lets go of becoming is I suppose one way to explain it, not
requiring any kind of mental analysis or function. A
transcendent world opens up that is ineffable. When I can reside
in this view, I can be going about my daily life, don't need to
be quietly meditating. What I have found over the years is, much
of the mental jabber and analysis is not really necessary. I can
listen better when mind is clear and quiet (paradox I know.)
>>
>> It seems to me that most of our mental effort is not
necessary, life goes on and is paradoxically, more interesting.
We excessively use our mental capacities because we are
constantly identifying with our experience as a function of ego.
Once that is quiet, the view is more clear, vital, even sacred
if you can forgive the religious implications of the word.
>>
>> This morning, this is the best description I can give.
>>
>> On Friday, August 23, 2013 12:57:52 AM UTC-4, AmandaRheen wrote:
>>
>> I am ignorant in this thing despite many conversations with
those
>> who meditate. What does it truly mean to quieten the mind in
>> meditation? Are people talking about language and running
>> commentary? Is it stopping the judgement function and
retaining
>> perception? Does it include quietening imagining or image
making?
>> What about sensation? Is it more about obtaining a
certain Bain
>> wave? In relation to knowing that the mediator has reached
the
>> place they are seeking what is the inclusion and exclusion
criteria?
>>
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
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