Re: Mind's Eye Re: Proof of the existence of God

Calculating the probability of personal experiences doesn't sound
fruitful, but as a challenge I find it rewarding to pursue an
explanation. How can one validate something instantaneous and
non-reproducible? The odds of a given configuration of any handful of
sand are likely astronomical. What about the odds of reaching to answer
the phone before it rings, turning on the radio because you are
whistling a tune and have the urge and the radio picks up at the exact
note, entire conversations play out weeks or days after the thoughts ran
through your mind, specific and extraordinarily random correlations with
nothing physical to connect them. I've probably had a few of them
myself, in that range of consciousness. Personally I think the most
impressive results will be found in dream research. I don't think the
likelihoods are statistical in nature, and the intelligent design debate
sounds like a rigorous fizzle so far. That makes it a tough question,
can we keep it going? Lets hope GW will chime in, of course he can't say
anything too spicy as a professional. :)

When I hear 'spirits' it brings to mind the mores and language of folk
wisdom, I haven't thought of it in this specific way.

On 11/9/2013 11:42 AM, andrew vecsey wrote:
> What difference does it make what I believe. Mando seems to
> understand. I am thinking
> about personal coincidences as proof of the existence of God/spirit.
> It is the only explanation of my personal coincidences that I gave in
> my examples. To me they are a very loud and clear message that "we
> are here". Can anyone explain them in another way? Can anyone with
> mathematical skills calculate the probability of my personal
> coincidences I gave in my examples? It would be interesting to hear
> other examples from other people.
>
> On Saturday, November 9, 2013 5:09:35 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> What I have not seen is just what you believe , or just what is it
> you are trying to understand and think about. I am not sure if
> just what you beliefs about God are. To me Andrew that needs to be
> clarified simply you need a common ground to develop and expand
> ideas. I am not complaining because this topic has helped me solve
> a problem in communicating my beliefs and explaining a difficult
> problem.
>
> My real first question to develop common ground is just how do you
> visualize God..
> I know it is stupid,, one needs to build a foundation before you
> can build the house.
>
> Matrix -- Soul rules the body -- Do No Harm
> (
> [_D Allan H
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
> To: mind...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> Sent: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Proof of the existence of God
>
> All those medium you require for "proof" of spirits existing can
> be with the proper technologies falsified as illusions in modern
> magic. With lasers you form any images and sounds that look and
> sound real but can not be touched. You can also be hypnotized to
> think you hear and see things that are not there. I appreciate
> your input to my post; I think you understand what I am trying to
> ask and think about.
>
> On Friday, November 8, 2013 10:48:35 PM UTC+1, Mando wrote:
>
> Andrew, I will require a medium (tree, burning bush, snake,
> human etc)
> and as a proof I will give signs/wonders (miracles).
>
> I was a bit confused earlier but I know get you: it's not to
> prove
> God/ any spirit doesn't exist but to find how they exist... I
> hope I
> haven't misinterpreted you, Andrew?
>
> Each has the right to have a belief: whether God/spirit exist
> or not
> and we must tolerate or ignore it... but with your (Andrew)
> post which
> being not the case I have stated is an interesting healthy
> discussion
> ' how would a spirit make us aware of it existence'?
>
> A spirit is formless so a form is required/medium most of the
> times
> and then a proof of everything that SPIRIT says; miracles,
> wonders,
> signs.
>
> I agree with Allan... the interpretation of God means different
> things to different people.
>
> Maybe I'm confusing myself more lol. I will try and do some
> thinking
> about the coincidences as proof of the existence of God/spirit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/8/13, andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Allan, I do not necessarily want to communicate with them
> and I have
> > nothing to offer them. I was just thinking that unexplained
> coincidences
> > like life and the 3 personal experiences I described can be
> taken as
> > spirits wanting to communicate their existence to us. Also I
> thought that
> > for people who demand "proof" of the existence of spirits or
> the spiritual
> > world, personal coincidences are the only way that I can
> think of. Can you
> > think of any other way? Can anyone else in this think tank
> think of another
> >
> > way?
> >
> > On Friday, November 8, 2013 4:10:18 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Why Andrew do you want to communicate with the spirit
> world?? Just what
> >> are you wanting to get from them? Just what is it you have
> to offer them?
> >>
> >> The most effective and reliable way is to live a healthy
> and wholesome
> >> spiritual life carefully obeying the universal law of "Do
> No Harm".
> >> Or There are a lot of con artist willing to help you.
> >>
> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light -- Do No Harm
> >> On Nov 8, 2013 3:38 PM, "andrew vecsey" <andrew...@gmail.com
> >> <javascript:>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Getting back to the original question I anted to
> discuss..... Can
> >>> personal coincidences (seperate chance events coinciding
> for a particular
> >>>
> >>> person) be regarded as proof of spirits communicating with
> them to tell
> >>> them that they exist? Another for of the question can be:
> If you were a
> >>> spirit and you wanted to communicate with someone to tell
> them you exist,
> >>>
> >>> what would be the most reliable and most effective way to
> do so?
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 7:50:55 PM UTC+1, andrew
> vecsey wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear group members.
> >>>> I would like to start a discussion on the proof of the
> existence of God.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately many people relate god to religions and
> want nothing to
> >>>> do
> >>>> with it. It is a shame because I think god shows itself
> very clearly to
> >>>> all
> >>>> in our every day lives. I published a short video on this
> topic that I
> >>>> would like to share with all of you. I look forward to
> your feedback.
> >>>> The
> >>>> text of my video is included below. The link to the video
> is:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yBnBATkFp8&feature=c4-overview&list=
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yBnBATkFp8&feature=c4-overview&list=>
>
> >>>> UU9rOAPUfZe3KEja0vvFpe_A
> >>>>
> >>>> Most children believe in Santa Clause and tooth fairies
> because despite
> >>>>
> >>>> common sense parents claim they are real. Most adults
> likewise believe
> >>>> in
> >>>> god because their religious leaders claim god is real.
> Religion
> >>>> teaches us that we can speak to god in prayer and that
> our prayers are
> >>>> answered if we are good. Most who believe in god actually
> merely follow
> >>>>
> >>>> blindly whatever religious leaders tell them to believe
> in the hopes
> >>>> that
> >>>> they will get something they crave for but do not really
> need. Some
> >>>> religious leaders even proclaim that god punishes those
> that are
> >>>> disobedient by having them burn in hell forever. Many
> people have
> >>>> difficulty believing in a god because they relate god to
> religion. They
> >>>>
> >>>> relate religion to the many religious wars and atrocities
> that killed
> >>>> millions of people in the name of god. Religions present
> god as an old
> >>>> man
> >>>> with a beard who watches over our every move and knows
> our every
> >>>> intention.
> >>>> This god is depicted to be jealous and extremely cruel.
> >>>>
> >>>> The first step in proving that god exists is to prove
> that spirits
> >>>> exist. Spirits softly whisper to us by giving us
> spontaneous thoughts
> >>>> call
> >>>> intuition which most of us do not listen to. Spirits
> loudly yell at us
> >>>> by
> >>>> giving us coincidences that most of us attribute to
> chance. Coincidences
> >>>>
> >>>> are 2 or more chance events that coincide in time and
> place. Any one of
> >>>>
> >>>> those events by itself can be attributed to pure chance.
> When such
> >>>> events
> >>>> happen in the same place at the same time to the same
> person, then many
> >>>>
> >>>> consider them as miracles. One such an example is life
> itself.
> >>>> Everything,
> >>>> including life itself, is theoretically inevitable to
> arise from chance
> >>>>
> >>>> when and if given an infinite amount of time. But reality
> precludes
> >>>> infinity which is possible only in mathematics and in our
> imagination.
> >>>>
> >>>> According to the latest scientific knowledge, our
> universe formed from a
> >>>>
> >>>> single quantum hiccup about 14.5 billion years ago. The
> chance of a
> >>>> single
> >>>> living cell evolving to a human being within the time
> span of 4 billion
> >>>>
> >>>> years can be calculated to be a reasonable possibility.
> The chance of
> >>>> life
> >>>> in the form of a single cell to appear within 500 million
> years after
> >>>> our
> >>>> sun and planet formed has a much lesser probability of
> ever happening.
> >>>> The
> >>>> chance of our earth being formed just at the right
> distance from our sun
> >>>>
> >>>> and the chance of our sun being just the right size
> required to harbor
> >>>> life
> >>>> within the time span of 10 billion years is orders of
> magnitude smaller
> >>>>
> >>>> still. When we combine these 3 chance events, the
> coincidence of them
> >>>> happening are far beyond a reasonable chance of ever
> happening within a
> >>>>
> >>>> time span of 14.5 billion years. Such coincidences of
> chance events
> >>>> happen
> >>>> all the time to all people. Below are a few examples of such
> >>>> coincidences
> >>>> that I have personally experienced.
> >>>>
> >>>> One day, after a few years of having graduated from
> university, I
> >>>> thought about my class mate whom I had not contacted or
> even thought
> >>>> about
> >>>> since we were in school together. I wondered how he was
> doing so I
> >>>> looked
> >>>> up his phone number and gave him a call. I dialed his
> number and before
> >>>> I
> >>>> got a ring tone, I found him on line. He explained that
> the same urge
> >>>> came
> >>>> over him to call me and he as well found me on line
> before getting a
> >>>> ring
> >>>> tone.
> >>>>
> >>>> In another example, a friend I was visiting was missing
> the very last
> >>>> piece of a puzzle she was working on. It was part of a
> blue sky. Having
> >>>>
> >>>> looked for the missing puzzle piece everywhere
> unsuccessfully I drove
> >>>> back
> >>>> home. About 400 km away, I parked my car on the shoulder
> of the road to
> >>>>
> >>>> have a pee. As I was peeing, to my surprise I was
> uncovering a blue
> >>>> puzzle
> >>>> piece that lay buried in the sand. When I told her about
> this, she
> >>>> refused
> >>>> to see me again.
> >>>>
> >>>> A third coincidence I would like to share is hearing
> about a friend of a
> >>>>
> >>>> friend and meeting her by chance 5,000 km away a few
> weeks later while I
> >>>>
> >>>> was on holiday.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are people who would like to be able to believe in
> a god without
> >>>> religious constraints, but demand physical proof of his
> existence. Some
> >>>>
> >>>> claim that whenever they narrowly escape an inevitable
> death that
> >>>> guardian
> >>>> angles must have been watching over to save them. Others
> claim that
> >>>> perhaps
> >>>> those lucky people who escaped death by the skin of their
> teeth were
> >>>> actually targeted by angels that wanted to kill them but
> just happened
> >>>> to
> >>>> fail to hit their target.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you ever win the big prize in the lottery, consider
> yourself just
> >>>> really lucky. After all, someone has to win. But if you
> get hit and
> >>>> killed
> >>>> by lightning soon after winning that lottery, consider
> yourself blessed.
> >>>>
> >>>> After all, most poor winners end up with more problems
> and end up
> >>>> unhappy
> >>>> as new millionaires.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>
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