Mind's Eye Re: Desire

Welcome back, Don!

On Sunday, April 27, 2014 10:59:05 PM UTC-4, Don Johnson wrote:
The secret to life is to be insatiable. At my age and experience, all desire has left the building. Not only am I well aware of my limitations I'm also aware of how damned much work(or money) is needed to satify truly worthwhile desires that I could probably achieve with great effort(or money.) Meh.

Never get old Poli.

dj


On Friday, April 25, 2014 4:18:59 AM UTC-5, pol.science kid wrote:
I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Desire

Good to read you Don, I didn't listen to the advice to to grow no older either but I have learned that when I think I know it'll there is always more
Allan

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Johnson <dajohn@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 4:59 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Desire

The secret to life is to be insatiable. At my age and experience, all desire has left the building. Not only am I well aware of my limitations I'm also aware of how damned much work(or money) is needed to satify truly worthwhile desires that I could probably achieve with great effort(or money.) Meh.

Never get old Poli.

dj


On Friday, April 25, 2014 4:18:59 AM UTC-5, pol.science kid wrote:
I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Mind's Eye Re: Economic cycles

It is my belief we are behaving like human beings. Greed is in every culture. We may dress it up prettily and call it ambition or drive if we like but humans have at heart their own self-interest. Protecting family and friends is inherently self-protective as well. I think there are far too many poeple that see the world as an extended family. While this may be true genetically these folks are making a horrible mistake if they think even 15% of the rest of the world thinks this way as well. Where is Glasnost now?

dj


On Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:39:35 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
I have been thinking about what is happening  and history seems to always be repeating itself,  self correcting the course of humanity.

Looking at society it seems that we have developed a culture of extreme greed..  am wondering where the course is going to change to.

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 (   Matrix  :  The Soul controls the Body
  )             :  Do No Harm
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Intenet


The wonderfulness of this medium still amazes me. I agree it hasn't nearly reached it's potential. We lost one of the best and most famous innovators when Steve Jobs died. I actually think he WAS alien he was just too smart to be human. Maybe he just went home on the mothership. You missed your ride Neil.

dj

On Saturday, April 5, 2014 4:50:38 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
Mt first real use of the internet was searching for academic papers.  Back then you probably had to get hard copy via inter-library loan to actually be able to read them.  The ability to search was the great advance.  Physically browsing whatever your university had in stock was always rather difficult.  It's much easier now, though outside science, this has only increased my feeling the academy is a redundant organ.  The good thing about being at university was it increased your chances of being with people who might be interested in something other than gossip, small talk and fuck-buddying.  I said ' increased your chances' - universities are full of trivial behaviour and mass match-making.

I rather hoped the internet would be a place to escape the trivial and be a place for dialogue of the authentic, sincere, comedic and speculative.  I believed this possible because we could search each other out.  Currently I feel it is better than main media, but then so is walking the dog.  Most of my online time is spent in intranets, usually tutoring or searching databases of knowledge or institutional facts (stats usually).    The internet as I'd like to see it doesn't seem to be happening.  Quite a lot of the other stuff I do on lone is illegal, like watching films to discover they weren't worth buying in the first place, or watching television without adverts or promos.  I can still see potential, but the changes I'd hoped for just haven't materialised.  How's everyone else feeling?

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Mind's Eye Re: Title of gender

"people who are naturally both"

ahem. Really? I beg to differ. I assume you refer to psuedo-hermaphrodites that have genitalia resembling both sexes but both do not function. I would call this condition ANYTHING but natural. I think the prefered term is "intersexual." At least that's what I got from Yahoo Answers so it must be true. 

dj


On Sunday, April 20, 2014 11:15:27 PM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
Seems that a 3rd gender is becoming recognized in parts of the world.
The gender to me is really not important, but ¿how do recognize the 3rd gender?
Female is usually Miss, Ms, or Mrs . . Male is usually Mr. (Mister) can not think of any others at the moment.
¿The question is how do you recognize the 3rd gender? Or if the 3rd. Gender is in permanent relationship like marriage?


§ Do No Harm ~ Soul controls Body.
Allan H

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Mind's Eye Re: Desire

The secret to life is to be insatiable. At my age and experience, all desire has left the building. Not only am I well aware of my limitations I'm also aware of how damned much work(or money) is needed to satify truly worthwhile desires that I could probably achieve with great effort(or money.) Meh.

Never get old Poli.

dj


On Friday, April 25, 2014 4:18:59 AM UTC-5, pol.science kid wrote:
I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Re: Mind's Eye Desire

Neil I find the last part of comment interesting,"   My soul?  Never see that realm as about me.  " I know you are atheist, no problem with that. Now an oddity that seems that only on the winter solsist  or however it is spelled .  Dating back to the era of Stonehenge. The one I saw a film of the interior the showed a ancient symbol of three spirals connected at a center point. The archeologist said that it was believed to represent a doorway for the soul into the after world→¿life?

It is odd that the soul seems to keep showing in ¿all? Religious beliefs no matter where in the world , no matter the belief system or the era of time from ancient to modern times.

It is always showing up and hidden from sight. ¿Why? Any answers?

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

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Mind's Eye Re: Desire



On Friday, April 25, 2014 11:18:59 AM UTC+2, pol.science kid wrote:
I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself.

Here is my 2 cents worth on desire.

"You can`t always get what you want, but if you wait some time, you get what you need."  To want or desire something is a god given characteristic given to man only.   Wanting something is an ultimate freedom that can never be taken away. Animals strive for their needs while man strives for his wants.  Wants and needs are most of the times not the same things.  Buddha felt that our desires are the cause of our deepest sufferings. But our desires can also be the cause of our highest highs. If you want something bad enough, you will probably get it.  With my beliefs of reincarnation, I believe that souls also have desires to experience different lives.

 

 

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Re: Mind's Eye Desire

There is a sort of academic version, usually referred to as 'the return of desire'.  I don't know what Pol is on about.  I mean this only in the sense I have little understanding of desire.  I've always struggled to find what is worth any.  I could whip up the competitive-cooperative thing in sport (in me and others) or in getting what needed to be done done.  I always thought sex different and have had the 'smarts'.  But mostly I find human being too ridiculous for desire.  Most of it seems biochemical for me and much of this arises in the hologenome - the bacteria we coexist with and various brain-signalling stuff.  Now, I have no desire to watch the next two soccer world cups because of the way the stadia have been built (by slaves in Qatar) and whatever creeps like Blatter do with the captured organisation of a children's game.  I may have the desire to outsmart Gabby, but would never forgive myself if I really did.  I'd like to live thinking I'm not an alien abandoned in human society, but given what humans do I'd rather be something else.  I've sort of spent life waiting for promises to turn up and , realising they were false.  The waiting was largely done where I didn't want to be, from classrooms to what are referred to as intimate situations that were not, really.  The material world (better systems world) disjoints us from a more communicative-spiritual-mystic world, but I regard most attempts at the latter phony and lacking humble reciprocation (though still where most of what is worthwhile come from).   Biochemical desire returns in almost everything.  Max on a field approaching nature is desirable and his overbearing desire for this is acceptable.  My soul?  Never see that realm as about me.

On Saturday, 26 April 2014 15:14:52 UTC+1, Gabby wrote:
...desire is a self-figured creature that changes her mind ... Is what I have learned from the prefabricated sprouts ... No associations to the soul sphere, the passions, or other organic relations ... Just like I don't understand you as being curious but inquisitative, which impresses by the high degree of acquired fearlessness and absence of greed for new... Hm

Am Freitag, 25. April 2014 schrieb pol.science kid :
I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Re: Mind's Eye Desire

...desire is a self-figured creature that changes her mind ... Is what I have learned from the prefabricated sprouts ... No associations to the soul sphere, the passions, or other organic relations ... Just like I don't understand you as being curious but inquisitative, which impresses by the high degree of acquired fearlessness and absence of greed for new... Hm

Am Freitag, 25. April 2014 schrieb pol.science kid :
I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Re: Mind's Eye Desire

I agree with Allan in that I think there is time in our life when our desires and passion are important and clarifying, when we are embracing those finite aspects of life.  Then, we realize we are both finite and infinite, and the desires, seeking, thoughts, feelings, while having quality and meaning, might not be as important because what we can discover in the infinite aspects of self do not have them. Integrating all aspects of self keeps our lives changing and allows discovery.

"Life and death" is a dual concept.  As such, they are inherent in each other.

On Friday, April 25, 2014 7:09:21 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Poli I think the importance of life and death is up to the individual.
To me personally what is of importance is the soul and it is eternal or without death. The body is little more than a vessel though which the soul demonstrates its comprehension and understanding of the guideline of 'do no harm's. Because when the soul takes the human form it for all practical purposes life becomes blind test, with your life presenting the questions (life situations you find yourself in) how you respond determines the outcome or karma.
Dharma and Karma can provide great insight into the questions of life and death.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: "pol.science kid" <r.freebird@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:19 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Desire

I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Re: Mind's Eye Desire

Poli I think the importance of life and death is up to the individual.
To me personally what is of importance is the soul and it is eternal or without death. The body is little more than a vessel though which the soul demonstrates its comprehension and understanding of the guideline of 'do no harm's. Because when the soul takes the human form it for all practical purposes life becomes blind test, with your life presenting the questions (life situations you find yourself in) how you respond determines the outcome or karma.
Dharma and Karma can provide great insight into the questions of life and death.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: "pol.science kid" <r.freebird@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:19 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Desire

I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Mind's Eye Desire

I was thinking... is desire life or is desire death... i mean.. we strive to fulfill it... and so it is life force.. or is it death because satisfying it is consuming itself..

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Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

Other than the biologic differences the personality traits show up in both genders, in varying degrees evolving with age. It seems that these trait are more teaching (because that is the way girls/boys are suppose to behave) than of gender origin.
It seems to me that letting biological differences remain physical. By stopping associating personality traits with gender you would go to solving a lot of the emotional traits with gender it would go a long way solving world problems today.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

I think we all have male and female aspects.  The male protects, is extroverted, ambitious.  The female nurtures, networks, communicates, feels. We are all both, but born, usually, one or the other. Gender confusion is a big burden with a great deal of suffering potentially. I've seen people move through it with grace, but not often.

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:00:38 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good to hear from you political,
Life evolves, so do friends and relationships.
There are people who are naturally both genders,

Personally the question has nothing to do with gender. Often times I think gender has little to do with anything and of little to.
Why can there be a choice that is non gender?
Do souls have gender?

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: "pol.science kid" <r.freebird@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

I think gender by definition is understood in binaries.. and thats where the problem lies.. if youre referring to the 'recognition' of rights of Transexuals and eunuchs in India.. then its nothing but a dumb ruse.. it seems very retarded to me after they recriminalised homosexuality a few months back... you can be transexual and have rights..  but according to the law if you have sex with the same person you go to jail... although of course any granting of rights is a victory of sorts.. but i guess the context shouldnt be overlooked and those idiots not lauded that they 'granted' rights to some group.. historical move.. bleh bleh... ....marriages are not permanent.. i was wondering .. are there any permanent relationships.. im losing touch quickly with so many people i used to hang out with / be good friends with /was intimate with.. i dont know.. do you think its possible.. one can only hope right..


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
Seems that a 3rd gender is becoming recognized in parts of the world.
The gender to me is really not important, but ¿how do recognize the 3rd gender?
Female is usually Miss, Ms, or Mrs . . Male is usually Mr. (Mister) can not think of any others at the moment.
¿The question is how do you recognize the 3rd gender? Or if the 3rd. Gender is in permanent relationship like marriage?


§ Do No Harm ~ Soul controls Body.
Allan H

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Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

I think we all have male and female aspects.  The male protects, is extroverted, ambitious.  The female nurtures, networks, communicates, feels. We are all both, but born, usually, one or the other. Gender confusion is a big burden with a great deal of suffering potentially. I've seen people move through it with grace, but not often.

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:00:38 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Good to hear from you political,
Life evolves, so do friends and relationships.
There are people who are naturally both genders,

Personally the question has nothing to do with gender. Often times I think gender has little to do with anything and of little to.
Why can there be a choice that is non gender?
Do souls have gender?

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: "pol.science kid" <r.freebird@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

I think gender by definition is understood in binaries.. and thats where the problem lies.. if youre referring to the 'recognition' of rights of Transexuals and eunuchs in India.. then its nothing but a dumb ruse.. it seems very retarded to me after they recriminalised homosexuality a few months back... you can be transexual and have rights..  but according to the law if you have sex with the same person you go to jail... although of course any granting of rights is a victory of sorts.. but i guess the context shouldnt be overlooked and those idiots not lauded that they 'granted' rights to some group.. historical move.. bleh bleh... ....marriages are not permanent.. i was wondering .. are there any permanent relationships.. im losing touch quickly with so many people i used to hang out with / be good friends with /was intimate with.. i dont know.. do you think its possible.. one can only hope right..


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
Seems that a 3rd gender is becoming recognized in parts of the world.
The gender to me is really not important, but ¿how do recognize the 3rd gender?
Female is usually Miss, Ms, or Mrs . . Male is usually Mr. (Mister) can not think of any others at the moment.
¿The question is how do you recognize the 3rd gender? Or if the 3rd. Gender is in permanent relationship like marriage?


§ Do No Harm ~ Soul controls Body.
Allan H

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Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

My lifelong relationships so far have been with my siblings.  My longest lasting friendships, since high school, now spanning over 4 decades.  Long term relationships and real intimacy is possible, but it takes the willingness to look at your own shortcomings honestly, and the ability to forgive yourself and others.  There is real comfort in history between people.  In retrospect, the innocence of beginning relationship can persevere over the decades, if two people can be honest and dedicated to each other.

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 12:35:05 PM UTC-4, pol.science kid wrote:
I think gender by definition is understood in binaries.. and thats where the problem lies.. if youre referring to the 'recognition' of rights of Transexuals and eunuchs in India.. then its nothing but a dumb ruse.. it seems very retarded to me after they recriminalised homosexuality a few months back... you can be transexual and have rights..  but according to the law if you have sex with the same person you go to jail... although of course any granting of rights is a victory of sorts.. but i guess the context shouldnt be overlooked and those idiots not lauded that they 'granted' rights to some group.. historical move.. bleh bleh... ....marriages are not permanent.. i was wondering .. are there any permanent relationships.. im losing touch quickly with so many people i used to hang out with / be good friends with /was intimate with.. i dont know.. do you think its possible.. one can only hope right..


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
Seems that a 3rd gender is becoming recognized in parts of the world.
The gender to me is really not important, but ¿how do recognize the 3rd gender?
Female is usually Miss, Ms, or Mrs . . Male is usually Mr. (Mister) can not think of any others at the moment.
¿The question is how do you recognize the 3rd gender? Or if the 3rd. Gender is in permanent relationship like marriage?


§ Do No Harm ~ Soul controls Body.
Allan H

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Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

Good to hear from you political,
Life evolves, so do friends and relationships.
There are people who are naturally both genders,

Personally the question has nothing to do with gender. Often times I think gender has little to do with anything and of little to.
Why can there be a choice that is non gender?
Do souls have gender?

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: "pol.science kid" <r.freebird@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

I think gender by definition is understood in binaries.. and thats where the problem lies.. if youre referring to the 'recognition' of rights of Transexuals and eunuchs in India.. then its nothing but a dumb ruse.. it seems very retarded to me after they recriminalised homosexuality a few months back... you can be transexual and have rights..  but according to the law if you have sex with the same person you go to jail... although of course any granting of rights is a victory of sorts.. but i guess the context shouldnt be overlooked and those idiots not lauded that they 'granted' rights to some group.. historical move.. bleh bleh... ....marriages are not permanent.. i was wondering .. are there any permanent relationships.. im losing touch quickly with so many people i used to hang out with / be good friends with /was intimate with.. i dont know.. do you think its possible.. one can only hope right..


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
Seems that a 3rd gender is becoming recognized in parts of the world.
The gender to me is really not important, but ¿how do recognize the 3rd gender?
Female is usually Miss, Ms, or Mrs . . Male is usually Mr. (Mister) can not think of any others at the moment.
¿The question is how do you recognize the 3rd gender? Or if the 3rd. Gender is in permanent relationship like marriage?


§ Do No Harm ~ Soul controls Body.
Allan H

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Re: Mind's Eye Title of gender

I think gender by definition is understood in binaries.. and thats where the problem lies.. if youre referring to the 'recognition' of rights of Transexuals and eunuchs in India.. then its nothing but a dumb ruse.. it seems very retarded to me after they recriminalised homosexuality a few months back... you can be transexual and have rights..  but according to the law if you have sex with the same person you go to jail... although of course any granting of rights is a victory of sorts.. but i guess the context shouldnt be overlooked and those idiots not lauded that they 'granted' rights to some group.. historical move.. bleh bleh... ....marriages are not permanent.. i was wondering .. are there any permanent relationships.. im losing touch quickly with so many people i used to hang out with / be good friends with /was intimate with.. i dont know.. do you think its possible.. one can only hope right..


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
Seems that a 3rd gender is becoming recognized in parts of the world.
The gender to me is really not important, but ¿how do recognize the 3rd gender?
Female is usually Miss, Ms, or Mrs . . Male is usually Mr. (Mister) can not think of any others at the moment.
¿The question is how do you recognize the 3rd gender? Or if the 3rd. Gender is in permanent relationship like marriage?


§ Do No Harm ~ Soul controls Body.
Allan H

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Mind's Eye Title of gender

Seems that a 3rd gender is becoming recognized in parts of the world.
The gender to me is really not important, but ¿how do recognize the 3rd gender?
Female is usually Miss, Ms, or Mrs . . Male is usually Mr. (Mister) can not think of any others at the moment.
¿The question is how do you recognize the 3rd gender? Or if the 3rd. Gender is in permanent relationship like marriage?


§ Do No Harm ~ Soul controls Body.
Allan H

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Internet

I remember it from the 60's too.   Belonged to one n Seattle, the problem was free loaders.  Could be setup anywhere including Detroit.

The problems come from greed and laziness. It would take a lot of planning. The commune would work best involved with other projects and even better if connected with the Catholic or orthodox churches (stability reasons , but that is my opinion.) My opinion Malta would be the best place to start it. Small size small population less than 1/2 million, English one of the official languages, part of the EU, independent and religious orientation.
I know Neil you're atheist,, but I do not see what that has to do with anything..  lol
 

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Internet

back to the 60s communal living is interesting, don't see much of it happening around here. Have many retiring friends talking about it, but haven't seen anyone doing it.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 10:42:15 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
That I understand, there is  lot of ideas that can work. In the current economic climate. To me communities might provide an answer. Communities where food and shelter are provided, but no one rides for free. (I am retire but I have an retirement income and there are other things that can do besides nothing.) Everyone can use some pocket change but income is for community use. Luud's and my combined income is in excess of say $20,000+ (after taxes) which is not much but combine that with 10 other couples  that would provide an income of $20,000 per month to support around 20 people, that is actually  lot of money when carefully handled lol Neil would have to create a new banking system to handle it.  A 15 story greenhouse will supply food and fish for around 50,000 people is not so much a problem..  what obstacles can be overcame. It is a matter of doing it and making plans aka putting the project together.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Internet

generators that collect and distribute static energy have been around for decades, and graphene can turn salt water into drinking water, but bringing such things to market in the post industrial society under the current economic and political systems proves to be too much of a challenge. I don't think these things can be suppressed forever.  Technology changes rapidly, what the market offers us is a fraction of what can be.  And it is still hard to keep up with...

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:25:04 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Ah yes driving, Ik have developed epilepsy though a pain in the butt and is under control, as a blessing in disguise it is a great excuse not to drive. Detroit  Netherlands hmm Netherlands Detroit  I would nominate the drivers of Detroit for sainthood. Or may be close, but here the police are on coffee for 7 hrs 55 minutes of an 8 HR shift..  they have to clock in...  in the almost 14 years I have lived here only seen (personally) officers pull over 6 vehicles for traffic violations. Sit an chat with 5 or so friend out in the country , an officers will show up on bicycles tell you to disperse if you continue chatting a full blown squad in full riot gear will show up to help you disperse. :-) (information relayed via personal experience of a friend) l avoid all trouble.
Oh yes Detroit might come in a close 2nd as far as bad drivers go.

God's will are great buzz words (not a put down in your case Molly I know better).. since joining this group my beliefs have evolved from Catholic, (actually a strange in normal terms, but good relationship,) though heavily influenced by my up bringing and interactions with the church, personally I visualize it changing.. mostly a community (religious order) within the church .. with different traditions and path 


(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Intenet

I think like Abraham, we have to give it all up before we get it all back, (and then some) and this occurs to me daily. In terms of politics and economics, the game is rigged and yet, I do just fine. Is it because my expectations are few, or because in spirit, I could give life as I know it up today, or remove my will to allow the divine? What I have learned is that I am called to action in the moment.  And because collectively, one moment leads to the next, my course of action is set by answering the call.  Recognizing the call can be tricky.  

I was introduced to Our Lady of Guadalupe a couple years ago in Santa Fe.  I was excited, because I found the story to be much like the "woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars" - a line from Revelation that has occupied my contemplation for many years. In Our Lady's story, she was asked (by an angel) to give up what she was doing, something she believed in, to do something else.  It is easy for fear to set in when this comes into our lives, easy to not hear the call. But I think that both Our Lady of Guadalupe and the woman clothed in the sun are stories of the ascension of the holy spirit within us.  There can be no growth, without willingness to place our will aside and express divine will, requiring the wisdom to know the difference (until they are one in the same.)

I often wonder if the models of politics and economy in our experience, at this point, don't fall into place in service of divine will.  All provide the myriad levels of experience that allow growth.  If we all started out ascended, no growth would be necessary.  Seeing ourselves as perfect at every level is often difficult.  Fear, frustration, confusion and the rest overwhelm. Especially driving home from work. (there are more bad drivers in Detroit than anyone can imagine!) But it all allows us to feel, and feeling our experience in relation to our action and reaction allows us to understand self will and divine will because we feel it as expressed.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 4:50:54 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
I think beyond pointing out the unchanging problems of the eons. I was taught that when you point  a finger at someone or something , you have three fingers pointing back at you with your thumb pointing own :-).
We know what the problems are, the real question is what are different possible solutions. We have a hilltop from which to let our candle light the world. Now the question is are we sheep being lead to the slaughter, or do we have the courage wrong, backing our words with personal actions and wealth.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Internet

back to the 60s communal living is interesting, don't see much of it happening around here. Have many retiring friends talking about it, but haven't seen anyone doing it.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 10:42:15 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
That I understand, there is  lot of ideas that can work. In the current economic climate. To me communities might provide an answer. Communities where food and shelter are provided, but no one rides for free. (I am retire but I have an retirement income and there are other things that can do besides nothing.) Everyone can use some pocket change but income is for community use. Luud's and my combined income is in excess of say $20,000+ (after taxes) which is not much but combine that with 10 other couples  that would provide an income of $20,000 per month to support around 20 people, that is actually  lot of money when carefully handled lol Neil would have to create a new banking system to handle it.  A 15 story greenhouse will supply food and fish for around 50,000 people is not so much a problem..  what obstacles can be overcame. It is a matter of doing it and making plans aka putting the project together.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Internet

generators that collect and distribute static energy have been around for decades, and graphene can turn salt water into drinking water, but bringing such things to market in the post industrial society under the current economic and political systems proves to be too much of a challenge. I don't think these things can be suppressed forever.  Technology changes rapidly, what the market offers us is a fraction of what can be.  And it is still hard to keep up with...

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:25:04 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Ah yes driving, Ik have developed epilepsy though a pain in the butt and is under control, as a blessing in disguise it is a great excuse not to drive. Detroit  Netherlands hmm Netherlands Detroit  I would nominate the drivers of Detroit for sainthood. Or may be close, but here the police are on coffee for 7 hrs 55 minutes of an 8 HR shift..  they have to clock in...  in the almost 14 years I have lived here only seen (personally) officers pull over 6 vehicles for traffic violations. Sit an chat with 5 or so friend out in the country , an officers will show up on bicycles tell you to disperse if you continue chatting a full blown squad in full riot gear will show up to help you disperse. :-) (information relayed via personal experience of a friend) l avoid all trouble.
Oh yes Detroit might come in a close 2nd as far as bad drivers go.

God's will are great buzz words (not a put down in your case Molly I know better).. since joining this group my beliefs have evolved from Catholic, (actually a strange in normal terms, but good relationship,) though heavily influenced by my up bringing and interactions with the church, personally I visualize it changing.. mostly a community (religious order) within the church .. with different traditions and path 


(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Intenet

I think like Abraham, we have to give it all up before we get it all back, (and then some) and this occurs to me daily. In terms of politics and economics, the game is rigged and yet, I do just fine. Is it because my expectations are few, or because in spirit, I could give life as I know it up today, or remove my will to allow the divine? What I have learned is that I am called to action in the moment.  And because collectively, one moment leads to the next, my course of action is set by answering the call.  Recognizing the call can be tricky.  

I was introduced to Our Lady of Guadalupe a couple years ago in Santa Fe.  I was excited, because I found the story to be much like the "woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars" - a line from Revelation that has occupied my contemplation for many years. In Our Lady's story, she was asked (by an angel) to give up what she was doing, something she believed in, to do something else.  It is easy for fear to set in when this comes into our lives, easy to not hear the call. But I think that both Our Lady of Guadalupe and the woman clothed in the sun are stories of the ascension of the holy spirit within us.  There can be no growth, without willingness to place our will aside and express divine will, requiring the wisdom to know the difference (until they are one in the same.)

I often wonder if the models of politics and economy in our experience, at this point, don't fall into place in service of divine will.  All provide the myriad levels of experience that allow growth.  If we all started out ascended, no growth would be necessary.  Seeing ourselves as perfect at every level is often difficult.  Fear, frustration, confusion and the rest overwhelm. Especially driving home from work. (there are more bad drivers in Detroit than anyone can imagine!) But it all allows us to feel, and feeling our experience in relation to our action and reaction allows us to understand self will and divine will because we feel it as expressed.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 4:50:54 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
I think beyond pointing out the unchanging problems of the eons. I was taught that when you point  a finger at someone or something , you have three fingers pointing back at you with your thumb pointing own :-).
We know what the problems are, the real question is what are different possible solutions. We have a hilltop from which to let our candle light the world. Now the question is are we sheep being lead to the slaughter, or do we have the courage wrong, backing our words with personal actions and wealth.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

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Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Internet

That I understand, there is  lot of ideas that can work. In the current economic climate. To me communities might provide an answer. Communities where food and shelter are provided, but no one rides for free. (I am retire but I have an retirement income and there are other things that can do besides nothing.) Everyone can use some pocket change but income is for community use. Luud's and my combined income is in excess of say $20,000+ (after taxes) which is not much but combine that with 10 other couples  that would provide an income of $20,000 per month to support around 20 people, that is actually  lot of money when carefully handled lol Neil would have to create a new banking system to handle it.  A 15 story greenhouse will supply food and fish for around 50,000 people is not so much a problem..  what obstacles can be overcame. It is a matter of doing it and making plans aka putting the project together.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Internet

generators that collect and distribute static energy have been around for decades, and graphene can turn salt water into drinking water, but bringing such things to market in the post industrial society under the current economic and political systems proves to be too much of a challenge. I don't think these things can be suppressed forever.  Technology changes rapidly, what the market offers us is a fraction of what can be.  And it is still hard to keep up with...

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:25:04 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
Ah yes driving, Ik have developed epilepsy though a pain in the butt and is under control, as a blessing in disguise it is a great excuse not to drive. Detroit  Netherlands hmm Netherlands Detroit  I would nominate the drivers of Detroit for sainthood. Or may be close, but here the police are on coffee for 7 hrs 55 minutes of an 8 HR shift..  they have to clock in...  in the almost 14 years I have lived here only seen (personally) officers pull over 6 vehicles for traffic violations. Sit an chat with 5 or so friend out in the country , an officers will show up on bicycles tell you to disperse if you continue chatting a full blown squad in full riot gear will show up to help you disperse. :-) (information relayed via personal experience of a friend) l avoid all trouble.
Oh yes Detroit might come in a close 2nd as far as bad drivers go.

God's will are great buzz words (not a put down in your case Molly I know better).. since joining this group my beliefs have evolved from Catholic, (actually a strange in normal terms, but good relationship,) though heavily influenced by my up bringing and interactions with the church, personally I visualize it changing.. mostly a community (religious order) within the church .. with different traditions and path 


(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Tired With the Intenet

I think like Abraham, we have to give it all up before we get it all back, (and then some) and this occurs to me daily. In terms of politics and economics, the game is rigged and yet, I do just fine. Is it because my expectations are few, or because in spirit, I could give life as I know it up today, or remove my will to allow the divine? What I have learned is that I am called to action in the moment.  And because collectively, one moment leads to the next, my course of action is set by answering the call.  Recognizing the call can be tricky.  

I was introduced to Our Lady of Guadalupe a couple years ago in Santa Fe.  I was excited, because I found the story to be much like the "woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars" - a line from Revelation that has occupied my contemplation for many years. In Our Lady's story, she was asked (by an angel) to give up what she was doing, something she believed in, to do something else.  It is easy for fear to set in when this comes into our lives, easy to not hear the call. But I think that both Our Lady of Guadalupe and the woman clothed in the sun are stories of the ascension of the holy spirit within us.  There can be no growth, without willingness to place our will aside and express divine will, requiring the wisdom to know the difference (until they are one in the same.)

I often wonder if the models of politics and economy in our experience, at this point, don't fall into place in service of divine will.  All provide the myriad levels of experience that allow growth.  If we all started out ascended, no growth would be necessary.  Seeing ourselves as perfect at every level is often difficult.  Fear, frustration, confusion and the rest overwhelm. Especially driving home from work. (there are more bad drivers in Detroit than anyone can imagine!) But it all allows us to feel, and feeling our experience in relation to our action and reaction allows us to understand self will and divine will because we feel it as expressed.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 4:50:54 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
I think beyond pointing out the unchanging problems of the eons. I was taught that when you point  a finger at someone or something , you have three fingers pointing back at you with your thumb pointing own :-).
We know what the problems are, the real question is what are different possible solutions. We have a hilltop from which to let our candle light the world. Now the question is are we sheep being lead to the slaughter, or do we have the courage wrong, backing our words with personal actions and wealth.

(    Matrix ~ Do No Harm
  )        ~ Soul controls body
[_D ~ Allan H

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