But then from early childhood I always had to deal with several tribes.. then also chief Joesph was well respected among Montanans ,, who were trying to help him get to Canada..the army on the other hand was not respected..
Chief Joesph was always a childhood hero,, My uncle taught for years on the reservations two different tribes.. and they are different .. each tribe is special and unique ,, it is strange but true I volunteered time in Gallup NM and lived among the Hopi and Navajo with other occasionally. When you are part of the local soup kitchen you get to know a lot of them.. and yes there is dislike between tribes.. even ran into old childhood friends who commented asking with comments like "what are you doing with him?" Oh yes Charlie was a Navajo and my right hand man.. ( the only way I could make sure he took his epilepsy medicine,,
Life with Indians in it is always interesting. and they are defiantly not one group of people.. it is like putting all the entire human population as one race..
Allan
--
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On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
I think it is a mistake to lump all american indian culture into one.
The nation as a whole was tribal, which brings with it all the
complications of the culture it implies for education, longevity,
intellectual development, technology etc... There were a multitude of
tribes, each with its own value system. Some, not as reverent as
others.
On Jan 22, 5:45 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oddly as I was reading,a thought returned, the ladies owned the tepees,
> divorce was easy, she just had to throw his things outside and it was
> final,,,
>
> Indian wars among the tribes were in fact religious wars, being the first
> poles of the teppee were set by belief. ,, not the beliefs were indicated
> by whether you used 3 or 4 poles, horses were not a factor till after the
> Spanish came.
>
> The valley in which I was born was known as the valley of the flowers,, it
> is said there was never any Indian blood shared there.. as the story goes
> there were two tribes battling it out and a beautiful maiden appeared and
> said they were not to spill the blood of their brothers in the valley of
> the flowers. the battle stopped and there were no more wars there ,, as
> there are five different ways to come and go from the valley it became the
> place where tribes meet it peace and each leaving by a different route..
> now the white men were not considered brothers and were fair game..
>
> Native american history can be a very fascinating subject..
>
> Allan
> On Jan 22, 2012 1:33 AM, "James Lynch" <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I can appreciate your thoughts on this Eman, and Don we have more in
> > common than I knew! Hoping my critical assessment didn't sound too
> > hasty, as it has taken a bit of time for it to sink in for me, and
> > animism it seems is as ingrained and natural to man as the genes
> > themselves. Not to usher in any "necessary" conclusions from it
> > however. I am most interested in this cultural aspect as a vehicle to
> > further understanding our challenges and what we could do with it.
>
> > This could offer a comparison narrative to inspire our reflection in
> > the hopes of coming to common understandings and move forward
> > societies. Thinking out loud, what do you guys think, ideas?
>
> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Eman Abdulla <emana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think that every culture has aspects of wisdom and depth. Cultures,
> > > like living organisms, are subject to survival struggles and those
> > > that don't make it to the top or last long enough under the spotlight
> > > are not necessarily less complex or enlightening as to the big
> > > questions of life and existence. If it's all about the demise of the
> > > native culture and its followers, then the scales of power or as Jared
> > > Diamond put it, guns, germs and steel settled the issue in favor of
> > > the stronger and privileged party. However, if it is about how we as
> > > individuals strive to better understand the world and communicate with
> > > it on a primal level, there is much wisdom to be harnessed not only in
> > > the heritage of the native Indians, but in all the legacies of
> > > defeated nations whose worldviews became obscure and presumably
> > > irrelevant. That doesn't mean adopting such worldviews, but reflecting
> > > on and harnessing bits of wisdom wherever they maybe.
>
> > >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com>> > > On 1/21/12, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Can I leave my two bits here as well? Like many millions of other
> > Americans
> > >> I have some American Indian blood in me. Cherokee to be specific. No, I
> > >> don't do dances around the fire and paint my face and jump around
> > wearing
> > >> feathers in my hair but take that image I just gave you as a lagniappe.
> > I
> > >> WAS in the Indian Guides as a child. I was Little Arrow and my dad was
> > Big
> > >> Arrow. Cute, huh?
>
> > >> The Indians created their 'religion' for the same reason Euros created
> > >> theirs. To explain the unknown and control the populuce. Being human the
> > >> Indians have the same capacity for love and hate and despair and joy as
> > >> their European counterparts. The rather large differences in culture, I
> > >> think, are mostly due to environmental factors. Euros were packed
> > closely
> > >> together and thus developed a culture based on property rights and so
> > >> forth. Indians, especially plains Indians, were nomadic in nature. No
> > >> concept of land ownership or any kind of ownership really. If you saw
> > >> it and needed it you picked it up and used it. Strength was respected
> > over
> > >> all else. The strongest had the prettest wives and the biggest tent.
> > (where
> > >> have I heard this before?) Many tribes warred with each other. In many
> > of
> > >> their languages the word meaning 'stranger' is synonymous with the word
> > >> 'enemy.' That's how they survived. Overwhelming Euro numbers led to
> > their
> > >> inevitable destruction and absorbtion into Euro culture. Better weapons
> > and
> > >> yes, disease played a role as well.
>
> > >> What I see as a mistake some make is an attempt to change or mold human
> > >> nature to create a more ideal society. It don't work like that. Some of
> > us
> > >> have a code we try to live by and the best one and most universal is the
> > >> golden rule you are all familiar with. Works great on a personal level
> > but
> > >> is impossible to police or regulate. For one thing, I don't want people
> > >> horning in on my business so therefore I resent it when others try to
> > horn
> > >> in on mine. Many other people I know WANT others all up in their
> > bizness.
> > >> Many people want to be cared for and coddled and protected without
> > >> contributing anything themselves. I don't support that. I never will.
>
> > >> One of the greatest Indian warriors was Geronimo. Fought Mexican and
> > U.S.
> > >> troops and settlers for decades but finally surrendered and adopted the
> > >> prevelant religion of both countries. A savy man was Geronimo. He
> > finally
> > >> saw the futility in his actions and took the only course for survival
> > left
> > >> to him and his kinsmen. Cultural conversion.
>
> > >> dj
>
> > wrote:
>
> > >>> Hah, that's a humorous way to see it. I haven't delved into the
> > >>> specifics of the claim but two things stand out to me: that a diet
> > >>> increasingly reliant upon carbohydrates over protein which our brains
> > >>> seem to be heavily reliant upon, and how our brains are used in our
> > >>> cultural environment (not US specific) since the agricultural
> > >>> revolution. The prefrontal cortex and cognitive development I think
> > >>> were the precursors to this, it was just a matter of time but I think
> > >>> the human brain naturally evolved an extremely high intuitive capacity
> > >>> for social relations, and tribal peoples I think implement that
> > >>> capacity to a greater degree. In an animist world (natural to
> > >>> tribal/our ancestors and children) the world is full of these
> > >>> relations, full of life. If we leave the context of modern society we
> > >>> see a world with infinite potential for complex interrelationships,
> > >>> imagine a mind brought into that world with underlying cultural roles
> > >>> that integrate all those sources of experience. This is not something
> > >>> easy for us to grasp I think, and is often dismissed.
>
> > >>> Not that I'm especially privy to romantic notions like the noble
> > >>> savage, if I am saying anything it is that we've left something behind
> > >>> and I think it haunts us, perhaps there is a developmental capacity
> > >>> that we've skipped when we jumped on board because the two worldviews
> > >>> are so at odds, as they seem mutually antagonistic for coexistence
> > >>> purposes if on the point of resource exploitation alone, though
> > >>> history makes plain what happens to tribal cultures in the path of
> > >>> industry. Sorry to be so cryptic, it seems that we are missing
> > >>> something I can't point to. But it becomes clearer if you run the
> > >>> narrative, our timeline seems terribly skewed, something we should be
> > >>> working to address. Especially now that our technological innovations
> > >>> are reaching such maturity that we will be able to redefine the human
> > >>> condition en masse. Funny, hasn't that always been the promise of
> > >>> innovation-
>
> > >>> Lost my thoughts somewhere.. I didn't know Shaman was a Russian word,
> > >>> neat.
>
> > >>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:> > >>> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 12:18 AM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > I hope america gets over its shrinking brain syndrome.. some of the
> > >>> peoples
> > >>> > brain must be the size of a pea right now,,(lol ... Must have been a
> > >>> > great prophet in my youth who came up with the term pea brain --
> > then
> > >>> > researchers saying it would be several hundred years but that we were
> > >>> headed
> > >>> > that direction ) ah the prophets of doom (see i told you so)
>
> > >>> > Shaman is a russian term term and not and indian term it seem they
> > >>> > are classified by what and how they serve the tribe.
>
> > >>> > Yes I agree the US is paying the price for its arrogance (saying
> > that I
> > >>> know
> > >>> > I am talking about myself too).. I hear that liberty for security..
> > >>> well I
> > >>> > think that the US is too blinded by corporate greed and spin to see
> > the
> > >>> > truth.. and they are being spoon feed little by little losing both
> > >>> their
> > >>> > liberty and security;;
> > >>> > Allan
>
> > >>> wrote:> > >>> >> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
> > >>> >> We are paying dearly for our arrogance Allan, you know what they
> > about
> > >>> >> those who sacrifice liberty for security. Our scientists are
> > >>> >> explaining the fact that our brains are shrinking with reassuring
> > >>> >> statements on progress and efficiency. Just transpose that with
> > Neil's
> > >>> >> position on those terms and the marching rhythm of our cultural
> > myths
> > >>> >> stops dead. I believe a Lakota shaman called Lame Deer put it more
> > >>> >> poetically. There are many things you won't find written, if you
> > >>> >> consider the purpose of the shaman to the tribe it is no surprise,
> > and
> > >>> >> I believe explaining it as ignorance is kinda ironic. ;-)
>
> > wrote:> ...
> > >>> >> > Native american beliefs are earth based and a living world the
> > >>> concept
> > >>> >> > of
> > >>> >> > mother
>
>
> read more »
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
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