Re: Mind's Eye New Google Groups is Dumb,but this not the subject

A healthy gestation to insure a healthy child, later capable of
understanding a moral code- but this carries a risk, doesn't it? There
are no guarantees.

An infant or small child may experience but not be able to verbalize.//
I think eye awareness begins around 3 months.

On Jul 3, 10:52 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes I do buy into some forms of genetic deisposition, I would question
> though what the term womb experiance means?
>
> To experiance must you not first have a brain that is capable of
> experiancing?  At what stage of human development does this happen I wonder?
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 3 July 2012 15:41:29 UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
> > Yes- the "code" is learned but there is still some debate/interest
> > about genetic inheritance, womb "experience", early childhood.
> > Somewhere in the past I read that our emotional natures were fixed
> > fairly early in life- though we do learn how to adapt to our culture
> > and society. Frankly, the moral code of humanity is pretty
> > hypocritical in many respects.
>
> > On Jul 2, 8:01 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Sorry Allan I must disagree with this.
>
> > > There is no built in moral code, this is learnt.
>
> > > On Saturday, 30 June 2012 07:13:05 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:
> > > > no Mal I really don't buy the blank table concept,,   there is the
> > built
> > > > in moral code which all souls know and  understand,, evolutionary
> > traits
> > > > are written in.. one thing it is not is blank,,  accessing this
> > information
> > > > like reading and writing is not that difficult,  other than the
> > spiritual
> > > > law of do no harm.  the rest of the information is difficult to
> > access.
> > > > Allan
> > > > On Jun 18, 2012 9:23 PM, "malcymo" <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Yes Gabby,
>
> > > >> The human conditioning that lies with us on the blank table: our
> > > >> evolutionary successful traits.Things that we can just do like learn
> > to
> > > >> talk. Not the hard things like learn to write.
>
> > > >> On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:48:07 PM UTC+12, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > >>> Yes, I think I know what you are aiming at. That's why I have been
> > > >>> saying time and time again that the blank table theory on which you
> > put
> > > >>> or take away the food for development is an unuseful construct. Even
> > if
> > > >>> it has four legs, it still doesn't walk, so to speak. What I'd like
> > to
> > > >>> raise awareness for is that human conditioning starts before the
> > little
> > > >>> human lies on the table to be told and shown what is good and what
> > is bad.
> > > >>> In that sense I'd agree that there is something "natural" in
> > morality.
>
> > > >>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 4:00 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > >>>> so when you say 'the human condition makes me human'... the fact of
> > > >>>> being human makes me human.?...  and the conditions that be inform
> > my
> > > >>>> morality... now taking this and putting it on the dude from my
> > book... so
> > > >>>> it will absolve him of any amoral or immoral calls he takes... now
> > i
> > > >>>> suppose this was the stand i was driving at... but i cant get
> > something in
> > > >>>> my mind clear yet... i find somehow.. different the two worlds..
> > korea and
> > > >>>> the Eusa... although the eusa has been formed after the
> > 'apocalypse'... see
> > > >>>> they can make themselves yet... their history of horror might
> > inform their
> > > >>>> 'morality or ethics'.. but then their life and experience will add
> > to
> > > >>>> it...their instincts will still have primacy(i have my questions
> > about
> > > >>>> instincts still though)... i dont see no 'evil overlord'... now if
> > some one
> > > >>>> starts form blank in a scenario(the korean camp)... where they are
> > > >>>> conditioned by reward and punishment..quite different form what we
> > say our
> > > >>>> normal world gives.. where.. there are no bonds of sympathy... or
> > empathy..
> > > >>>> where causing the death of your kin is normal... i want to ask...
> > and
> > > >>>> know.. will the insticts of this person know.. how would right and
> > wrong
> > > >>>> be.. what would be 'natural'.. i cant help but think there is
> > something
> > > >>>> 'natural' in morality..and 'good'..what would be 'good' for those
> > born in
> > > >>>> camps... wouldnt this person be different from people who came to
> > camp...
> > > >>>> maybe because they have a recollection of what life can be ...
> > although
> > > >>>> even civil life in North korea is very much subject to
> > control....this is
> > > >>>> turning out to be a long winded thing.... but i think you may get
> > my
> > > >>>> jist....
>
> > > >>>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM, gabbydott  wrote:
>
> > > >>>>> Like James says, it's a familiar story. I don't think one needs to
> > > >>>>> have read all the books on the subject to be able to recognize a
> > universal
> > > >>>>> pattern. How I relate to the world is geared by the human
> > condition that
> > > >>>>> made me human and where I am drawing connections I am doing the
> > > >>>>> conditioning myself. Pinpointing high and low morale on an
> > evolutionary map
> > > >>>>> seems dumb in this light. My being a lion makes perfect sense at
> > one time
> > > >>>>> but I expect you to treat me as a human nevertheless. That's how I
> > would
> > > >>>>> approach the fear of losing history, historical knowledge and the
> > > >>>>> forgetting of the morals evolved  thereof. Assessing independently
> > of
> > > >>>>> judgement is a much more pleasant state of mind, I understand. :)
>
> > > >>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > >>>>>> Uh.. since i didnt read the book ..i cant reeally say what the
> > author
> > > >>>>>> intends... but why i brought it up was to think about the
> > conditioning of
> > > >>>>>> human beings in a very different environment.. and what kinds of
> > humans it
> > > >>>>>> effects... and i was wondering whether the moral idea of a human
> > being is
> > > >>>>>> universal... i read the blog you gave the link to..thanks..its a
> > very
> > > >>>>>> interesting book.. looking forward to read it... i guess its
> > similar in the
> > > >>>>>> way that there is a loss of history i suppose in forming
> > standards..sort of
> > > >>>>>> a bleak start... but since i have little idea of what comprised
> > the world
> > > >>>>>> in the book..i feel unable to draw the connection to my
> > problem... perhaps
> > > >>>>>> you could...and forgive my slow uptake but i couldnt exactly
> > place the
> > > >>>>>> quote in my post... the man eats lion one... is it a paradox on
> > mans high
> > > >>>>>> moral being?? ... i am not able to articulate correctly... sorry
> > for giving
> > > >>>>>> this weird reply..it doesnt quite make sense.. perhaps it will
> > make sense
> > > >>>>>> in the morning...
>
> > > >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 5:53 PM, pol.science kid < wrote:
>
> > > >>>>>>> oh ..um..i just re read my post... in my post.. the line with
> > china
> > > >>>>>>> and cold war... i meant to ask what was responsible for  N korea
> > turning
> > > >>>>>>> that way.. sorry for eating the line.. was a bit tipsy... and
> > ill get back
> > > >>>>>>> to you on your reply soon...
>
> > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 4:49 PM, gabbydott < wrote:
>
> > > >>>>>>>> Are you saying that the author of this book is suggesting that
> > only
> > > >>>>>>>> moral order has turned human life upside down and left to right
> > > >>>>>>>> compared to how other worlds conceive of theirs? As in the
> > quotation of the
> > > >>>>>>>> preface of another book dealing with this subject which is
> > commented on
> > > >>>>>>>> here  http://gerryco23.wordpress.
> > **com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/<
> >http://gerryco23.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/>
> > > >>>>>>>> ** :
> > > >>>>>>>> Jesus said: Blessed the lion that the man will devour, and the
> > lion
> > > >>>>>>>> will become man. And loathsome is the man that the lion will
> > devour, and
> > > >>>>>>>> the lion will become man.
> > > >>>>>>>> I would argue that this is too flat an argumantation. Need to
> > do
> > > >>>>>>>> something now. Sorry, that I can't expand on it now.
>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 8:21 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I was reading and suddenly i remembered a horrifying detail...
> > > >>>>>>>>> just recently this book has been out... Escape from camp14.. i
> > forget the
> > > >>>>>>>>> authors name.. i am wondering if i have already made a post on
> > this.. have
> > > >>>>>>>>> i...? ..if yes.. sorry for the repetition.. if no.. i just
> > cant get it out
> > > >>>>>>>>> of my head.. the account of this horrid life in North Korea...
> > the Cold
> > > >>>>>>>>> War.. Russia.. China... ? The Western World even...Its strange
> > the people
> > > >>>>>>>>> living under a fear regime for so long... brings images of
> > 1984(book)...
> > > >>>>>>>>> But my issue here is a different one... I didnt read the
> > book.. cos i dont
> > > >>>>>>>>> have it.. but i read about it... maybe you guys can google it
> > and see.. i
> > > >>>>>>>>> am too lazy to post a link here :)...  But .this..guy who
> > escapes.. he was
> > > >>>>>>>>> born in the camp... and one thing he reveals is that he caused
> > the death of
> > > >>>>>>>>> his mother, and siblings... or both parents.. and some
> > relatives.. to gain
> > > >>>>>>>>> favor with the authorities... somethng like that is pretty
> > shocking to
> > > >>>>>>>>> us... but.. how would you judge this man.. maybe we dont have
> > a right to
> > > >>>>>>>>> judge him..but just hypothetically to have a discussion..
> > there is no
> > > >>>>>>>>> morality here is there... now this man.. doesnt he seem to be
> > comlpetely
> > > >>>>>>>>> amoral... not immoral... maybe immoral to us... the review
> > said in the book
> > > >>>>>>>>> this man shows no compunction for what he did..i am just
> > trying to concieve
> > > >>>>>>>>> of these worlds...where... being human is comletely
> > different... what
> > > >>>>>>>>> informs these worlds... the people who comprise it... ?..what
> > say you guys..
>
> > > >>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>> EverComing
>
> > > >>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>> EverComing
>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> EverComing- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -