Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

Certainly there are countless who have tried, however.We are still
dealing with behaviors/beliefs going back 6,000 years if not longer,
aren't we? The cave man type still exists, doesn't he? :-)

On Oct 9, 9:28 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That could be true if you are only dealing with the physical plane .
> as soon as you step the the spiritual realm it is no longer needed. I
> do not think there is a programmer that program to deal with that
> aspects of life.
> Allan
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>
> >> On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
> >> > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific
> >> > acts or purposes ... "
>
> >> > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>
> >> > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed
>
> >> > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet !
>
> >> > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee as a
> >> > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick up
> >> > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- patterns
> >> > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/
> >> > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
> >> > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific
> >> > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight and
> >> > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final
> >> > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. Hard
> >> > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year old
> >> > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for
> >> > > violinists.
>
> >> > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to
> >> > > > farming
> >> > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those who
> >> > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work).  The obvious
> >> > > > issue
> >> > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and
> >> > > > life-
> >> > > > style ideologies.    Slave-making ants kill the adults in their host
> >> > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they become
> >> > > > adult by making them raise their own brood.  Even in enslaved ant
> >> > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the wider
> >> > > > collective.  Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt
> >> > > > peonage.
> >> > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on offer
> >> > > > for
> >> > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any!  The Chinese
> >> > > > refer
> >> > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'.
> >> > > > Some
> >> > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to note
> >> > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as work
> >> > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme).  My own
> >> > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that James
> >> > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining subjects
> >> > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control
> >> > > > fraud.
> >> > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot.
> >> > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most people
> >> > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I
> >> > > > clear
> >> > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no human
> >> > > > can encompass the data loads.  Allan and I share problems with our
> >> > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year to
> >> > > > have
> >> > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon my
> >> > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to
> >> > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat.  We have now done this
> >> > > > experimentally with some tinkering.
> >> > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict the
> >> > > > future - that is its purpose is for this.  We find it in non-human
> >> > > > life-forms too.  This is related to a general science-view of why a
> >> > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all.  I'll
> >> > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants
> >> > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'?
>
> >> > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > >  From another perspective one might like to appreciate the role
> >> > > > > (or a
> >> > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a world
> >> > > > > with
> >> > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to
> >> > > undertake
> >> > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside our
> >> > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These are
> >> > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led
> >> > > > > becomes
> >> > > too
> >> > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as does
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, corrupting
> >> > > > > as in
> >> > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared
> >> > > > > language
> >> > > and
> >> > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can present a
> >> > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what impetus
> >> > > > > would
> >> > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and where,
> >> > > > > I've
> >> > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring
> >> > > currently,
> >> > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for sharing
> >> > > > > what
> >> > > > > you gather. :)
>
> >> > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical concept of
> >> > > things
> >> > > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the body as
> >> > > nothing
> >> > > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world.  this
> >> > > > > > seems to
> >> > > be
> >> > > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality.
> >> > > > > > Allan
>
> >> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > >     We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future
> >> > > possibilities
> >> > > > > >     are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a
> >> > > consequence
> >> > > > > >     of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left
> >> > > > > > unchecked
> >> > > can
> >> > > > > >     be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I can
> >> > > > > > tell
> >> > > we
> >> > > > > >     are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on as
> >> > > > > > long
> >> > > as
> >> > > > > >     possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is that we
> >> > > > > > can
> >> > > do
> >> > > > > >     little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue
> >> > > strategic
> >> > > > > >     challenges that will open those opportunities.
>
> >> > > > > >     If I said that in 10 years the technology should be
> >> > > > > > accessible
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > >     refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at
> >> > > > > > 80+
> >> > > > > >     conversion efficiency from common household materials in
> >> > > > > > your
> >> > > > > >     average (modern) garage there is no shortage of engineers
> >> > > > > > that
> >> > > would
> >> > > > > >     call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today with
> >> > > moderate
> >> > > > > >     access to materials refining equipment, with a net generated
> >> > > income
> >> > > > > >     over the winter months, and it could be boosted by running a
> >> > > > > >     greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC,
> >> > > steam
> >> > > > > >     reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few
> >> > > > > > terms
> >> > > for
> >> > > > > >     that type of nut.
>
> >> > > > > >     I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our
> >> > > > > > social
> >> > > and
> >> > > > > >     political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able
> >> > > > > > to
> >> > > > > >     redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but we
> >> > > insist
> >> > > > > >     that primitive human traits are superior and sacrosanct.
>
> >> > > > > >     Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are
> >> > > doing
> >> > > > > >     (not necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still
> >> > > passin'
> >> > > > > >     the buck here, your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad
> >> > > > > >     telepathy isn't an option because the picture is clear but I
> >> > > just
> >> > > > > >     don't trust the words yet.
>
> >> > > > > >     On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>
> >> > > > > >         That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas
> >> > > > > > need
> >> > > time to
> >> > > > > >         consume your complex theories in simple practice for you
> >> > > > > > to
> >> > > see
> >> > > > > >         where
> >> > > > > >         we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and
> >> > > motivate
> >> > > > > >         us. :p
>
> >> > > > > >         On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM,
> >> > > > > > James<ashkas...@gmail.com
> >> > > > > >         <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>>  wrote:
>
> >> > > > > >             I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step
> >> > > > > > with
> >> > > > > >             technology, that
> >> > > > > >             implies an intelligent management infrastructure
> >> > > > > > that
> >> > > > > >             educates and motivates
>
> ...
>
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